A Log Cabin Republicans member was assaulted and called a “faggot” early Saturday during an altercation inside a bar at Dallas’ Hilton Anatole hotel, where the gay GOP group is holding its National Convention, according to Dallas police.
Sr. Cpl. Kevin Janse, a spokesman for DPD, said the incident isn’t currently being treated as a hate crime because the suspect’s use of the word “faggot” was provoked by the Log Cabin member and his friends.
Janse said both the Log Cabin member and the suspect were intoxicated when the incident occurred at about 1 a.m. The Log Cabin member and his friends were whistling at the suspect, who got offended and shoved the victim, Janse said.
The Log Cabin member suffered minor injuries, described as a cut to his nose. The suspect was cited for class-C misdemeanor assault but was not taken into custody.
“Two groups of intoxicated individuals got into a verbal argument,” Janse said in an e-mail Saturday afternoon. “Supposedly the victim and his friend were whistling at the suspect, who took offense and shoved the victim. Officers interviewed both parties and made a class-C assault. Which is not a jailable offense if the two parties can be separated, which they were. Detectives are interviewing all parties as we speak but there is no indication of a hate crime based on what both parties are telling detectives. Just two drunk people.”
Asked to confirm rumors that the suspect used the word “faggot,” Janse said: “Yes. that word was used, but it was provoked.” Asked whether he meant that the word was provoked by the whistling, he said: “Yes. And comments about them ‘looking good.'”
Laura Martin, the police department’s LGBT liaison officer, said detectives were conducting follow-up interviews today with the suspect, the victim and witnesses. She added that the use of the word “faggot” doesn’t automatically make the incident a hate crime.
“The crime has to be motivated, has to start, because of the suspect’s bias,” Martin said. “‘In and of itself, calling a name during a fight doesn’t necessarily indicate that it was motivated by bias.”
Dallas Voice is withholding the names of both the suspect and the victim until more information becomes available.
UPDATE: Martin said late Saturday that the victim has opted not to press charges, meaning the case will be dropped.
Also, the victim contacted Dallas Voice via email Sunday morning and gave us his side of the story. The victim asked that his name continue to be withheld:
“I don’t want this to get more publicity but am concerned that your version, which is based on an inaccurate and misleading police report, is going to get more attention than it should,” the victim wrote. “The police treated this as a standard bar fight when instead the guy came up behind me and smashed my face into a glass tumbler while I was seated at a table with several other guys. I declined to prosecute because the suspect apologized in person and seemed to be sincere — plus it was clear any court experience would be a long and arduous process. … (As a side matter, I can’t believe how many commenters already are taking the position that I deserved it.)”
Here we go again, turning someone mildly undereducated and maybe redeemable into a raging homophobe for life thanks to our own behavior. Consider the counter – an intoxicated bree .. errm, straight male, whistling and hooting at a group of bear dykes just back from a weenie roast, telling one she has a nice rack. If she’d gone and punched out the guy, we’d be hollering and hooting for her and pinning the hate crime on him.
Whistling, hooting, and hollering is never a good idea, especially not when intoxicated. Take the beating like a man, apologize for being a jerk, and move on. My $0.01.
Unwanted sexual advances have been endured by women forever…yet do we see these same women physically attacking the perpetrators of the catcalls?? Rarely, if ever. With that in mind, shouldn’t we all be aware that it’s inappropriate to sexualize or embarass another human being by making an unwanted (and in this case, obviously very vocal) sexual remark?? Grow up and be a better representative of our community….apologies are due from both parties. What a shame for ALL involved!!
Maybe the suspect assaulted the guy because he was a republican.
Sounds like he deserved it.
Should we expect intelligent behavior from a Log Cabin Repubican?
A on the Instant Tea Blog of The Dallas Voice:
Log Cabin Republicans Member Assaulted Called “Faggot” During Convention At Hilton Anatole
Okay, one reads this headline and immediately one thinks, “OMG, those damned Republicans are beating up poor little defensive less queens.” Then, you read the article. No, your initial thinking is totally wrong. The stupid Log Cabin Republicans decided to have their National Convention at the same hotel on the same weekend as the Texas Republican Party. At 1:30 in the morning, a bunch of the stupid queens started whistling at a Republican and making lewd remarks. Stupid Republican was offended and pushed one of the queens and called the queen a faggot. Now the queen wants this prosecuted as a HATE CRIME. HELLO PEOPLE!! Just because we should have equal rights and one day will have them doesn’t give one the right to offend someone by making an unwanted pass at them. If it had been on Cedar Springs during Halloween Night or during Pride Parade is one thing, being rude at the Anatole in a mixed crowd is another. I guess I’m too old. I think the stupid Republican should have decked the queen. Broken his stupid nose.
I used to be so proud of the Dallas Voice. I was swept in by the high class printing job, etc. Then, I began to have doubts about the time they were reporting on the trouble at The Crews Inn. I saw the “crowds of protestors” (only about 12 or so max). I began to realize that everything you read on DallasVoice.com or in print is totally slanted.
Just my $0.03 worth.
I was there. The police report was inaccurate – there was no whistling – and the suspect assaulted the victim from behind by slamming his head into a glass. In no way did the victim “deserve it” – and shame on you for siding with someone who assaults someone else.
I’m sorry, but if whistles provokes a homophobic attack, it’s a hate crime. That means the guy attacked him because he was making a gay sexual advace at him. What if an unattractive woman whistled at him? Would he have hit her? If not, it’s a hate crime, plain and simple.
That said, it’s obviously not a good idea to whistle at random guys who are probably straight. If the guy wants to get offended and call him a faggot, whatever. Maybe he deserves that. He doesn’t, however deserve to be hit for happening to be a guy.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. 1. Trammel Crow owns the Anatole and is a big sponsor of LCR,
2. This happens in his hotel when he is underwriting the LCR National (not Local) event, 3) [An LCR member] gets his face punched for making advances at US Soldiers 4) These US Soldiers back from fighting in Afgan or Iraq are staying at the hotel and part of a readjustment/re-entry program, 5) It was their Sgt that jumped to the defense of some of his men who were being whistled at in the lobby bar, 6) LCR guys back from partying on the strip provoke the situation, and 7) The DPD refuses to call it a hate crime immediately without further investigation because both sides offer up differing accounts.
Having been staying at the Anatole from LA, I immediately think this is a hate based crime and all the stories about rednecks in TX is correct. Then varying accounts and deails surface. I don’t think we are at the bottom of this story, but what I do believe is this crime will be buried for a number of reasons and all motivated by differing poltical agendas. Above all it involves US Military personnel. What really happened? I don’t know. But it does seem ironic that an LCR member whose organization led the fight to overturn DADT would demonstrate exactly what many military men and women fear — Lewd contact by gays in the military.
“Yes. that word was used, but it was provoked.”
seems like this is a justification on his part. it is clear that Sr. Cpl. Kevin Janse needs some additional training before he puts his foot in his mouth again. this hillbilly attitude has got to stop.
“thanks to our own behavior” “Sounds like he deserved it” “Should we expect intelligent behavior from a Log Cabin Repubican”
nice blame the victim routine guys. why can’t the gay community be more accepting of the diversity within it? and why should we live in fear if we flirt with someone that may/may not be gay? jeez.
@paul ryan, dude, seriously?
you should sit and read the article again before running your mouth. first, conventions are usually booked years in advance. and the log cabin republicans would probably have no idea that the heritage foundation was meeting there too unless the hotel advised them.
“a bunch of the stupid queens started whistling at a Republican and making lewd remarks. Stupid Republican was offended and pushed one of the queens and called the queen a faggot.”
again, blaming the victim. and getting the parties confused in the process. nowhere in the story did it say the aggressor was a republican.
“I think the stupid Republican should have decked the queen. Broken his stupid nose.”
so you advocate violence against gays when they gays “offend” straight people? really?
maybe things were different back in your day. maybe you lived in fear so long that you accepted that as normal. get with the program, times have changed.
Something smells fishy. If someone allegedly smashed my face into a glass, I would not shake that fucker’s hand and say we’re cool. Why drop charges? This is how homophobes get away with things b/c we’re too polite or too busy to take the time and put them in their place. I am disappointed that this creep is gonna be running around thinking all he has to say is sorry and everything is gonna be okay. One day he may hurt someone else and he won’t be able to apologize to them.
” I can’t believe how many commenters already are taking the position that I deserved it.”
I can. Gay liberal Democrats take the ‘Animal Farm’ approach to equality – all people are equal, it’s just that some people are more equal than others.
Wow, I agree Tisha that something smells fishy with this story. I wish we had the truth so we could all respond intelligently!!! That being said, why let the perpetrator go, by saying he is sorry, unless there is more to the story.. ???? I would have his ass in jail if he smashed my face in a glass! Provoked, or not, stand up for yourself PUSSY! Thats why this keeps happening over and over, because some of us are to scared or maybe too embarassed to stand up for ourselves!
That’s a Republican for you actually. If you ever heard one speak they make comments like “gays should be put in jail”, “gays should be put in institutions and isolated from society”, and the Tea Party favorite. “Gays should be put to death.” I watched a video the other day where Teabaggers were chanting “Obama is a fag lover!” Make no mistake Republicans are not our friends no matter LCR says. They are not here to help us and many Republicans think that the LCR is a joke within its own party. The majority of Republicans will NEVER support gay Rights and will NEVER help gay people. They have said so. I have letters from Republican Leaders that I have written to that says they will never support it. Face the facts the Republicans are homophobes and will remain that way. We need to stop putting our heads in the sands and ignore the facts. There is nothing good that can come from the help of a Republican. Except Gay people being rounded up and place in jail and possibly our own extinction. We need to start standing up to them not placating them with our votes. They are using the hope of Equality to get elected, but that hope will never come to pass. If these people become elected our hope will become our nightmare.
Ok first off if your dumb enough to whistle at a bunch of Marines back from Afghanistan then your dumb enough to cat call him you prob deserved what happened to you. It could have been much much woarse so just be happy thats all you got…lol
Jason, if you’re dumb enough to make that statement, then you deserve to be forcefully sterilized so you can’t inflict your spawn on the world.
I am with Tish. It is clear this was a hate crime even if a whistle was involved. Not to mention that I suspect American taxpayers were paying for these soldiers to be at the Anatole. Marines deserve our respect but they do not have carte blanche to harm those they disagree with.
OK Ladies: The police have given all of you permission to assault any and all straight guys that whistle at you anytime anywhere.
Additional facts: I personally spoke with 4 of the 6 individuals present at this incident. I’ve known all of them for years and trust their judgement. All are responsible citizens with advanced education and respected occupations in law and medicine. All gave a credible and believable accounts that greatly contradict the police report (2 of the 4 do not drink). The attack on these men was primarily driven by the fact they were gay, PERIOD. I’m amazed at the contrast of responses by your readers. The fact that gay Republicans were involved has created a “he deserved it” tone to some comments. This is utterly inexcusable. May I remind your readers that law enforcement personel made the same idiotic accusations after the Rainbow Lounge incident. Can’t help but think if a Marine Sargeant had attacked a Stonewall Democrat at a hotel bar your readers would be far less passive toward this outrageous incident.
He was stupid enough to whistle at some guy. You assume the risk when you do that. He may have gotten hit because he was gay but he did start it. It’s just drunken stupidity. Just chuck it up to being young and stupid. We all have been there. lol Find a gay guy to hit on. Straight guys don’t like it unless they know you.
AND…. Just to be clear THERE WE NO CAT CALLS OR WHISTLES! Actually challenged 4 of the 6 to whistle… they couldn’t. The best I can gather, it was an overheard “he’s hot”, that triggered the attack.
John, fuck you. He can get the fuck over it, and if he can’t, then he can expect to A) Be hit back, or B) face hate crimes charges. He wouldn’t hit an ugly woman for thinking he’s hot; he has no business hitting a gay guy for thinking he’s hot. Period. I don’t care if any of them were drunk or not.
Some of them don’t drink and can’t whistle! So they must be innocent!! That’s funny.
So a couple of guys had too much to drink, said some things, threw some punches, then went their own way. No “victims”. No “homophobes”. It’s not always a gay thing.
Or a Republican thing.
@ John… If a girl attacked from behind and smashed a str8 guys face hard enough to break a glass table and his nose because she over heard a passive remark on her attractiveness (realizing this is unlikely but stick with my point) would you chalk this up to being young and stupid? PLUS… the person being attacked didn’t say anything but “I’m gay”, in response to the question “are you guys faggots?” Please John, you’ll have no moral credibility if without the complete facts you stick to your “he started it” logic . The best I can gather the guy that was attacked was quietly sipping his drink before he was assaulted. His only provocation was admitting he was gay and being the closest one to attack.
It’s not a hate crime. Our soldiers risk their life for us. They were drunk and you were drunk. Shit happens when you drink. Sorry your not going to enlist any sympathies from me. Why would you enrage a soldier anyways? That’s a fight you won’t win. No I am not advocating violence. I am saying you all were drunk, young and stupid and shit happen. By the way John K., no thanks I am not interested either.
We’re all human, and we all have prejudices as evidenced above.
The real issue seems to be LCR National is “likely” embarrassed by this situation. True, Trammel Crow underwrites the National LCR Convention, and owns the Hotel. And, both constituents likely” encouraged the victim (who is not even from Dallas) to drop the case and not press charges. According to the reports, none of the LCR people in the bar were from Dallas – all from out of town.
The DPD story isn’t credible. The facts are missing. That’s where the real risk in the future lies for the GLBT community in Dallas. If they can’t see through this crap, and state the facts truthfully, then we have a big problems – just like in Ft Worth.
A real danger is this incident involved a US Army Sgt knocking the crap out of a civilian. Provoked, or not – it’s wrong.
But let’s sweep all this under the carpet. No one really cares!
If no one whistled, where did that rumor come from? Why isn’t this guy coming forward, giving his name, and speaking out? Why is he not pressing charges if the guy just came up and bashed him for no reason?
Are you kidding me John? Our soldier risk their lives for us, so they are above the law and above reproach? Give me a break. The guy that was gay-bashed didn’t start a fight. He didn’t insult anyone. He didn’t hit anyone. If the gay-basher was insulted, it says more about him than about the other guy. And you can’t advocate violence in one breath and then say you’re not advocating in the next breath and expect it to go away. At the very least, you are excusing violence. Tell me, would it have been ok for this soldier to hit a woman that whistled at him (assuming that even happened)?
We’re all human and have prejudices as evidenced above.
The real issue seems to be LCR National is “likely” embarrassed by the situation. Trammel Crow underwrites the National LCR Convention, and owns the Hotel. And, both constituents “likely” encouraged the victim (who is not even from Dallas) to drop the case and not press charges. According to subsequent reports, none of the convention people in the bar were from Dallas – all from out of town.
The DPD story isn’t credible. That’s where a real risk in the future lies for the Dallas GLBT community in Dallas. If they can’t see through this crap, and state the facts truthfully, then we have a bigger problem – just like in Ft Worth.
However, the real danger in this incident involved a US Army Sgt knocking the crap out of a civilian. Provoked, or not – it’s wrong. Sweeping this story under the carpet is certainly more convenient. R Clarke Cooper is the executive director of the national Log Cabin Republicans. He is a former combat veteran from the Iraq campaign and remains a captain in the Army Reserve. He led the way for the LCR court case repealing DADT. See, this is embarrassing to the organization nationally, and it has to be for Trammel Crow.
I wasn’t there and do not know what actually went down. Having been in the gay community for quite a few years I’ve learned something that so many of my brothers have NOT learned….SHOP IN YOUR MARKET! Leave the “straight” boys alone….if they want to play with you they will LET you know…….
LOL It was between two drunk men. It’s just stupid. It’s not even newsworthy. It’s just guys being stupid. Why make it into anything more unless your seeking attention. Leave the soldiers alone. They have been through enough. I don’t have any respect for anyone who gets in a drunken bar room brawl with soldiers just back from the war. Get over yourself. You shouldn’t have hit on drunk straight guys. They will react. I am sorry you cannot convince me that its a hate crime. Hate crimes are created with thoughtful malice. A bar room fight is not “thoughtful malice”. lol It’s nothing more than a couple drunk guys acting stupid.
Ever since the bathhouse raid, I’ve noticed that Dallas queers are very self-loathing – as proven in many of these comments.
John: you most definitely can continue playing with yourself cause i for one find you to be repulsive. You are too dense to change the scenario in your mind even with the assistance of other commenters and see the hypocrisy, ignorance and insensitivity you display. PS: Gay soldiers who disagree with you happen to be serving this country honorably. Go back inside your hole.
I find it very interesting that every single time a gay man is assaulted and/or called a perjorative comment then it gets the label of a hate crime. Sometimes a guy is just a guy and has it coming to him, sometimes not. I think about how many times I have heard a gay and/or lesbian refer to another race or religion and/or other minority in a derogatory way and wonder……why is is that we so seemingly talk the talk but can’t walk the walk as they so say. Hell, we can’t even find it in our hearts to be kind to one another should someone make a pass at us in our community that we aren’t interested in. We poke fun, make comments, segregate ourselves to the point that our “community” is no longer a community unless, of course, some “straight man” calls one of us a “faggot” and then you’d think we are all best friends. We all need to grow up.
I have stayed on the sidelines for a long time while this heartbreaking story played out. Here are my thoughts and observations.
In much of the Middle East, when a woman gets raped it’s presumed to be HER fault for enticing her attacker. Likewise, many on here are blaming the victim because he may have provoked it by a whistle, or said “That guy is Hot” to his friend. (He didn’t BTW).
A better, and more accurate parallel of this story is that of the “Rainbow Lounge” in Fort Worth. In the Rainbow lounge, police officers seemed to rationally justify slamming a patron’s head into the wall…until the real story surfaced sometime later. In this story a police officer seemed to justify the attacker’s behavior by saying he was provoked….not by touching…not by anything physical…
The key difference for many readers commenting on here has to be the venue and who did the attacking…a gay guy in a gay bar gets attacked by a cop, versus a gay guy in a mixed venue gets attacked by a soldier returning from battle. Had this all happened at JR’s, I think the community’s reaction would be very very different!
That said, the police report isn’t complete. LET ME REPEAT, THE POLICE REPORT ISN’T COMPLETE.
Police failed to offer the victim’s side of the story to the reporter, and came up to his own rash conclusions much like Rainbow Lounge! Remember how the police reports for Rainbow seemed rationale until further investigation, now didn’t they?
I can tell you what I do know:
1. I know the victim and his partner…both very laid back individuals who are private by nature. When I heard they were attacked, I was shocked and saddened. Later, when I learned of the police report I was in disbelief and angry.
2. A trusted detective contact inside Dallas Police told me that in his 20 years in calling on the Anatole, it’s the first time hotel security withheld their internal report, and refused to offer Anatole surveillance video without subpoena that would back up everyone’s story. NOW THIS SHOULD BE ALARMING.
3. There was a very sober Doctor present at the victim’s table who back up the claim of the victim…that there was no whistling or catcalling.
BUT LET’S SAY THE POLICE REPORT WAS CORRECT, WAS THE RESPONSE MERITED? ABSOLUTELY NOT!
The response was not merited under ANY set of circumstances! The fact it was a Marine being on offensive makes matters even worse because he should be better trained to have more control than the general population in that circumstance.
It’s easy to sympathize with a man coming back from a tour of duty, but please don’t let that cloud your proper judgement in this particular situation.
The following day after the attack, there was much back and forth between the police, the victim and the attacker as how to go forward and what charges to file. The attacker already had received a misdemeanor ticket that might be career ending.
In regards to the settlement, the attacker APOLOGIZED to the victim and admitted to the police that he couldn’t remember what happened that evening. Further, the victim described the apology as sincere and dropped the charges because pursuing them would have meant a lot of out-of-town travel on repeated occasions.
BOTTOM LINE: the attacker’s behavior is the one that should shock and anger us, and much empathy is deserved towards the victim. He didn’t ask for the attack…whistle or not.
Well, he shouldn’t have been whistling at the guy…Although, if women started punching every straight male that made passes at them, there’d be a lot of bloody noses.
John: You still haven’t answered the question I asked you. Would it have been ok for the soldier to hit an ugly woman who whistled at him? And again, this guy did not “get into a drunken brawl” with the soldier; the soldier started the fight. I have no respect for a soldier who does that. This is supposed to be a professional wielder of physical force, not a drunken moron. And a hate crime is by definition a crime commited against someone because they are a member of a particular protected class (if a gay guy hit a straight guy for being straight, the same would apply, so this is not a one-way street). No lengthy pre-meditation is necessary. The question is, if this guy wasn’t gay or wasn’t a guy, would the soldier have hit him? And did the reason for his hitting him have anything to do with his sex or sexual orientation. The answers to both questions mean this is a hate crime.
Thomas W: We all have prejudices, but that doesn’t mean we get to hit people. Logan: Your attitude is bullshit. How does he know if the guy is gay or not? What if the soldier was gay and possibly interested, but neither would have said anything because this particular venue “wasn’t their market”? How many possibly fulfilling relationships never happened because of attitudes like yours? Yes, the reality is that shit like this happens in situations like this, but excusing it with a bullshit “he had it coming” attitude isn’t the way forward. Punishing morons like this soldier is.
Logan: Had the guy just called him a faggot, whatever. That is not what happened. The soldier hit the guy. That is where the line is crossed. Get your analysis straight. Rob Schlein: Very well-said.
Lil’ Carl: You had it right in the second half of your comment. Whether he “should” have been whistling or not, a violent response is absolutely unacceptable, whether it’s a man or a woman.” This is not how people in a civilized society behave.
I’ll ask this again, John K. – if the soldier had been me with my girlfriend and the assaulted person had been a straight dude making remarks at me concerning my looks, catcalling me, would you call it a hate crime if I kicked a straight dude’s kneecap? What if I called him names while doing so? Think carefully.
I’m really confused by all the unnecessary people you’ve placed into your hypothetical scenario, but I’ll give it a shot. Assuming you are a woman, it depends why you kicked him. If you kicked him because you are a lesbian and you don’t like straight men, then yes, it’s a hate crime. If you kicked him because you don’t like ANYONE making remarks and catcalling you, and you would kick anyone who does so, then perhaps not. Calling him names doesn’t directly change whether it’s a hate crime, but it certainly indicates your intent. Again, if you were a lesbian kicking him because he was a straight guy doing this, it’s a hate crime regardless, but if you were calling him a filthy breeder it would help prove that is why you were doing it. And, I refer back to something I said or implied at least once before, that if this soldier in the real situation at hand would also smash a woman’s face into the table for whistling at him, then it’s not a hate crime. Nothing changes the fact that in no case, whether it’s a hate crime or not, the soldier is a criminal for hitting another person for no legal reason. That is something that seems to be getting lost in all the hate crime discussion. In no way are these two guys on equal footing here. The soldier is a low-life, and the other has done nothing wrong.
Now I’m rereading your comment, Aliana, and I realize I misread your first sentence. I’m not sure if you are a guy or a woman. You said assume the soldier was you with your girlfriend. If that is the hypo, then it is absolutely no different than the real situation at hand, and if the reason you kick the guy is that he is a gay guy catcalling you, then it’s a hate crime. If the reason you did it is that it was ANYONE doing it, guy or girl, then you are just a common criminal.
Ok, now I found you Aliana. Went back to your first comment. So, you are a lesbian. You’re with your girlfriend and a straight guy catcalls you and otherwise doesn’t touch or threaten you and you kick him in the kneecap because he’s a guy doing it and you are a lesbian who doesn’t like guys, and you wouldn’t have done it if it was a girl, then it’s a hate crime. If you would have done it whether it was a guy or a girl, then it’s not a hate crime, but a criminal assault nonetheless. Unless there is physical violence threatened or a reasonable person would feel threatened with violence, it’s an assault. Whether it’s a hate crime depends on whether the assault was done all or mostly because of the sex or sexual orientation of the victim.
The correct thing to do would be to indicate that you aren’t interested in the straight guy, in whatever language you see fit, and if he persists in harassing you, then you report him to the owners of the establishment for removal. If at any time the situation escalates to a point where he physically threatens you, then and only then would you be justified in striking him.
@ John K. – By all means….you are right. My analysis is incorrect. The soldier crossed the line. All gay men are grown up. We never stretch the truth. We are always the victims. We never badger anyone. We are an innocent and innocuous group of people who are seemingly being singled out every single day by straight men and we are the most open and accepting and loving people to ourselves, our community and every person around us. – please feel free to insert whatever level of sarcasm here that you wish 🙂
Honestly, all these hypothetical scenarios don’t mean crap considering that Mr. Schlein’s friend didn’t think it was worth the time or his frequent flyer miles to prosecute. Now, we have some souped up jarhead with a violent temper serving in our armed forces and a threat to any LGBT soldier in his vicinity. Would you accept the apology of a drunk driver who didn’t remember what he did? Being drunk is no excuse for his actions. Being a marine doesn’t excuse you from shit.
I wrote you a response Logan, but the site seems to think I’m a spammer now and made me lose it, so I’m done commenting here. Suffice it to say that you stereotype gay people yourself as somehow NOT open, accepting, and loving, and you assume that this particular gay person victim here lacks those qualities and seem to say that he somehow deserves to be assaulted over it. He doesn’t. He didn’t do anything that lots of people don’t do in bars all the time, gay and straight alike. It’s a social situation, and he is free to indicate his interest in another guy. I would feel safe assuming that this soldier would have hit him whether it was a catcall or whether he walked up to him and politely indicated interest. That most certainly makes it a hate crime. But, if not, then perhaps not. In any event, the criteria for a hate crime is very clear: it was a crime commited because of the sex or sexual orientation of the victim.
@ John K – I am not stereotyping gays any more or any less than I would stereotype straight people. I love my gay brothers and sisters AND I love my straight brothers and sisters. Inappropriate behavior is just that – nothing more, nothing less. What I am actually saying, and here I will admit that I did veer away from the subject matter, is that not every single time a gay man is assaulted and/or called a name is a hate crime. There is such a thing a momentary lapse of reason. As I admitted before, I was not there so I do not know what was said or done by either party except for what I read up above. With that said I have noted, after 20+ years in the gay community, that we are equal in so many ways to straight people, inclusive of our own predjudices, bigortries and intolerance. I will certainly keep your comments in mind for future reference. I might also point out that I have not been the only person on here who thinks that something is not quite right with this story.
Logan: Again, I’m back to my old ways of not being able to resist continuing in an online discussion. I totally agree with you that not every time a gay person is assaulted or called a name is a hate crime. If the victim here had said, “hey, watch where you are going asshole” and the soldier responded by calling him a faggot and hitting him, that would totally not be a hate crime. That is not what happened. This soldier hit him because he was gay, or almost certainly did. If those turn out not to be the facts, I stand corrected. But that is not what is largely being argued about on this forum. Most of the arguments are saying this isn’t a hate crime even if the facts are as alleged, and that is simply not correct.
@ John K – well then we can agree to disagree. If the guy went over, for no reason whatsoever and attacked the guy then I would say, without a doubt, it’s a hate crime. I’m just a bit suspicious that nothing at all was said and no alcohol was involved. And believe it or not you would be the type of person, whether we agree or disagree, that I could probably sit down and have a conversation with. The fact is neither of us were privy to the actual events at hand so there is the chance that we both could stand corrected.
Fair enough Logan. And I do feel the same way about being able to sit down and have a conversation with you. I hope I didn’t come off as too harsh here.
If someone is attending an event to promote LGBT rights, and his rights are violated yet he chooses not to press charges and do everything to keep this happening to someone else, then the victim is the entire community. Chad Gibson stood up, took the power back, and moved us forward.
No One not one has the right to make “cat calls” or sexually demean another person for their own pleasure. That’s called Sexual harassment. If this straight guy was a woman there would be no question about being wrong but since it a guy some how its okay? Grow up. Sexually harassment is illegal in all 50 states. So the gays are at fault. You are creating a double standard and saying its okay to sexually harass people.
John: I quite clearly stated earlier that if a girl did this to a guy, it would still be wrong. You don’t hit people for saying something to you. And sexual harassment is unwanted sexual advances. A single catcall in the bar is not going to rise to that level. As I stated above, guy or girl, gay or straight, the correct thing to do if “harassment” persists is to contact the owners of the establishment, not to assault someone who is not a physical threat to you in any way. Again, you put words in my mouth and attribute opinions to me that I never expressed. If it was a straight guy with a woman, I would feel exactly the same way. There is no double standard here. Except in that case, it probably wouldn’t be a hate crime. Again, it comes down to was the assault because he was being “sexually demeaned” or because he was being hit on my a gay guy. If it was the latter, it’s a hate crime. See my above post where I say it would likewise be a hate crime if a lesbian hit a straight guy because she doesn’t like being hit on by any straight guys.
@ John K – you are too funny and I am indeed typing this with a smile on my face and not being sarcastic. It is very sweet and genuine of you to say what the correct thing to do is and in an ideal world you will get NO argument from me. We don’t, however, live in an ideal world. Again, I was not there and do not know what happened. I do know this, however, Whenever alcohol is involved the “ideal” status of any situation, stastically speaking, goes right out the window. No one deserves to be hit over such a minor infraction if it even occurred. Likewise, no one deserves to be catcalled at either even if it occurred. What am I saying? You have your opinion and it is, undoubtedly, unwavering. Allow others their opinions as well :). No one is attacking you perse – and lord, if they all please don’t call it a hate crime my gay brother or sistah’ – whatever you prefer 🙂 – btw….that last part is just a little humor :)….Lighten up Francis 🙂
This the problem when a guy is sexually harassed he fights back, but when a woman is sexually she sues or contacts the establishment. A straight man is not going to do that. You do not understand the psychology behind it especially if he’s a solider. Furthermore this wasn’t just one cat call. He made lewd gestures and remarks—and he was asked to stop before he got pushed. This is why I don’t go to bars because I know gay guys do this and its wrong to treat someone like that. I have done worse when I got unwanted attention at a bar. Pushing a guy is nothing.
Note to self – don’t make a pass at John 🙂
John, are you just making shit up now? The exact facts are disputed. You assume the worst about this gay guy because you are clearly a homophobe. You wouldn’t hit a woman that hit on you, and the fact that you would hit a gay guy betrays your homophobia. If you’ve done this or worse at a bar, then you deserve to have a criminal record. Grow the fuck up. If you don’t go to bars because you’re afraid of getting hit on by a gay guy, that says volumes more about you than about them. A bar isn’t the workplace. It’s a social setting where you can and should expect attention, particularly if you are attractive. There are appropriate and inappropriate ways to handle it, and hitting someone is not among the appropriate ones.
Logan: I understand we are not in an ideal world. That is why we have laws to punish people who act in inappropriate ways, and that is why this is a hate crime against a gay person who was attacked because of his sexuality. Whether someone deserves to be catcalled or not, hitting that person is a grossly disproportionate response, particularly when your disgust is based on their sexual orientation. :-p
No one has the right to sexually accost another person anywhere. The bar is not about sexually accosting guys who walk by or trying to molest them. Any guys who do that to me can expect to pick themselves off the floor, and I have pushed drunk guys off of me. It’s ridicules and immature. You have a right to protect yourself from unwanted sexual behavior. Crying hate crime every time a person doesn’t want to be sexually molested is immature.
John: There you go making up facts again, and it’s dishonest and getting old. Yes, if someone “accosts” or “molests” you, or tries to, and if a drunk guy need to be “pushed off you,” as in they were “on” you, then you certainly have the right to respond with reasonable force to get them off of you and defend yourself from unwanted touching. That is NOT what is being reported here at all. A whistle and/or a comment is not “molesting” or “accosting.” Stop creating straw man arguments, i.e., making shit up.
Perfect example of someone who, from what I can tell, had every right to defend himself: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/derry-gay-bar-straight-man-acquitted-over-bottom-touch-response-15151234.html
If a man makes sexual gestures and comments you have the right to right to protect yourself from being yelled sexual things at. Yelling sexual things at someone in a public place is against the law. The problem with the straight man asked him to stop and the gay men stood up which he took was going to attack him so he acted first. Pushing a guy to get away from you that has made lewd remarks is okay in my book as well just because I know where lewd remarks and gestures lead. Some guys have a hard time taking no for answer.
Again, you keep making things up that simply aren’t there. No where does it say the gay guy stood up in a threatening manner. In fact, the only specific in that regard is the update at the bottom where the guy says the other guy came up behind him while he was sitting down and pushed his head into the table. Stop making shit up, for at least the third time. And I don’t know why you think making sexual gestures and comments in public is illegal, first of all, and second of all, in another showing of you making shit up, no where in the story does it say there were “sexual” gestures or comments. Saying someone is “good looking” or whistling at someone is in no way illegal (this is not the workplace), unless it persists to the point of criminal harassment, which this clearly did not based on what is written in this article. If the Westboro Baptist Church has a right to stand in public with “God Hates Fags” signs directed at passers-by, then this gay guy has a right to tell someone he looks good in an attempt to engage him in conversation or whatever. With that, I’m really done with you because you clearly are only here to be an asshole and not to have a real discussion, as shown by your persistent need to make up facts that simply aren’t there.
The police report said he pushed. You can read here: https://dallasvoice.com/log-cabin-2-1074912.html
You can read about sexual abuse laws which includes suggesting unwanted sexual contact here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse
Even the Marine claims he was being sexually harassed by the gay guys. I am not making it up read it yourself.
Nothing in your wikipedia article describes any conduct alleged here.
I don’t know why some went through and some won’t. I quote Wikki : “Also applies unconsential verbal sexual demands towards an adult.” “One-of-the-Gang – Harassment occurs when groups of men or women embarrass others with lewd comments, physical evaluations, or other unwanted sexual attention. Harassers may act individually in order to belong or impress the others, or groups may gang up on a particular target.” Educate yourself! That’s what happened here.
You’re making up facts again. That’s not what happened here. First of all, the key is “unwanted,” and until initially engaging someone in conversation of interaction, there is no way to know what is wanted or not. As I’ve said numerous times, if it arises to the level of criminal harassment, that’s one thing. But whistling is not per se “sexual.” Certainly saying “he is good looking” isn’t sexual harassment and you sound like a ridiculous idiot to argue that it is.
Read the damn police report. These guys got together and decide to yell sexual things at another group of guys. It was sexual harassment and UNWANTED because they were asked to stop. The gay guys purposely chose these guys to harass and embarrass. Talking is “hi how are you” Not “lets go to the bathroom for sex.” Grow up dude.
A gay person identifying as a Republican, especially considering how draconianly homophobic the Texas State Republican Party Platform is, obviously has mental problems, so color me unsympathetic. The circumstances and facts surrounding this incident, reported so far, do NOT rise to those of hate crime.
John: If there are known facts beyond what is stated on this page, I apologize for any mistakes of fact. I’m operating with the facts stated here. I’m not wasting time seeking out other information regarding the specific facts of this case because I simply don’t care about it that much. The fact remains that we have a philosophical difference of opinion as to when it is appropriate to hit another human being. I don’t believe it is appropriate or legal unless that other person poses a physical threat, and you seem to think it’s ok to turn a non-physical confrontation into a physical one. I think readers can decide for themselves who needs to grow up. Tim: Thanks for you opinion, although you simply state it with no argument or reasoning other than your implication that the quite irrelevant fact that this was a gay Republican has something to do with it, which I think brings into question your ability to reason logically about it. I say this as a gay Democrat (for all intents and purposes) who shares the opinion that gay Republicans are foolish, but again, it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. Everything else aside, a hate crime is an offense that would otherwise be a crime (like assault, which this clearly would be, regardless of the fact that John thinks physical force was justified here) that is committed because of the victim’s sexual orientation. That means, if the unwanted attention, or even sexual taunts, would not have caused this soldier to hit a woman but it caused him to hit this gay guy simply because it was a guy making them, then it’s a hate crime.
And I have to ask one more thing. John, you say “hi, how are you” is the appropriate way to start a conversation. Fine. But that doesn’t indicate romantic or sexual interest. How is this gay guy supposed to indicate his romantic or sexual interest? And do you REALLY believe that this soldier wouldn’t have assaulted him anyway even if his advances were more tactful? Maybe not, but if that’s what happened and he had assaulted the guy anyway, somehow I think you’d still be defending him. Gay people can never be well enough in our place with guys like you.
What the hell John K. You have some really twisted ideas. What is wrong with getting know a guy before having sex? You don’t have to sexually abusive to some one or demean someone to show romantic interest. Try “Hi your beautiful” works better then “Hi lets fuck in the bathroom.” Guys like you make me sick. Sex is the only thing you think about and you don’t care if its demeaning or not. I find your posts repulsive.
100 percent believe that had he walked up to the and talked to them in a respectful way that things would have turned out different. Most Marines aren’t homophobes. If anything the guys could have made friends and had someone to talk to that night over drinks. Marines are not unsociable people. I find then a lot of fun.
John: You just asserted that most members of the branch of the military that was most opposed to Don’t Ask Don’t Tell repeal are not homophobic. Naive. Also naive of you to think this would have turned out any differently if the comment were more tactful. “Let’s fuck in the bathroom” were your words, not mine, and I never defended them. There you go making shit up again, but then again, that’s clearly your M.O. so I and I’m sure no one else here is surprised. You say he should have said, “hi, you’re beautiful” when one of the accounts was that he said, “he’s hot” about the guy. That sounds pretty similar, and if you think the difference between those two phrases is the difference between being hit or not, then you are the repulsive one. I’m not talking about sex. I’m talking about indicating an interest beyond a platonic friendship. And I stand by my feeling that you would be defending this guy had he hit a gay guy for saying, “hey, you’re beautiful.”
But I don’t want to be drawn into engaging in the same kind of making shit up as you, so I’m not doing anymore hypothetical situations. Bottom line, rude comments, sexual or not, are not justification for assault, and if that assault is also caused by the fact that the person is gay, it’s a hate crime. Period. Have a nice life.
John and John K. Sexual Harassment isn’t defined by one incident. The law states it must be over time and continual.
Please stop making stuff up John.