HARDY HABERMAN | Dungeon Diary
It’s been awfully dry in Texas and the wildfires are spreading big-time. What we need is help to fight the fires and more importantly, RAIN. Now I am a religious guy, even though some of my readers might not believe it, however I am not a big believer in intercessory prayer.
Not so our governor. He has issued an official state proclamation stating in part, “it seems right and fitting that the people of Texas should join together in prayer to humbly seek an end to this devastating drought and these dangerous wildfires.”
Though I applaud his sentiment, the idea of a state proclamation urging prayer really treads heavily on the line between separation of church and state. More importantly, instead of asking people to just pray, why not ask them to volunteer to fight the fires? Actions speak louder than words, Gov. Perry.
You may be “religious”, but you have no idea the meaning of being a christian. If you did, you would know that this is exactly what our state and our country needs: Prayer
Here’s some words of wisdom for Perry and all the other fundy talibangelicals that are tyring to run the state of like it’s the Rev. Jubilation T. Cornpone’s non-denominational, get rich quick beliveing in the baby jeebus prosperity preachin’ mega-church in east Texas…
We never fail to fail because it the easiest thing to do…That’s why prayin’ is so popular with the conservative, low information evangelical voters of TX…Cryin’ won’t help you and prayin’ won’t do you no good – Led Zeppelin’s “When the Levee Broke”…
”Two hands clasped on tools workin’ do more than two hands clasped together prayin’.
Two hands clasped on tools means you’re doing something – Two hands clasped in prayer just makes you think you are…GOOD LUCK with that prayin’ mumbo-jumbo stoppin’ those fires…
The bible says “You have not because you ask not” Prayer gets God involved with our situation and we can sure use His help right now. The bible says that God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. It is humility that says we need your help Lord. Pride says “we” can figure this out on our own. Is it not amazing how quickly people can pray when their own lives depend on it.
Be that as it may . . . Speaking a recovering Fundamentalist, Matthew 18:19 says that if any 2 pray for anything in His name, then it will be granted.
Seems to me that if the Bible is true, then as long as Gov. Perry can scrape up 2 Christians to pray, then all our problems will be solved.
Let the prayers begin!
@David…Why doesn’t prayer seem to work in the Democratic Republic of Congo or for the women in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and was no one praying in Rwanda when so many were murdered? I’m an atheist and many theists drive me nuts with them going around saying they are blessed. We’re not blessed! We’re lucky! We live in a country that’s a lot better than most and it’s not even close to what I would like it to be. Prayer doesn’t work! Grow up people! Or do all the gods just enjoy watching all the horrors that are so prevalent in other countries. For fires, we need to find ways to prevent them, how to deal with them more effectively when they do happen, and maybe we should ask Perry to speak out against cigarette butts etc. during dry times. That seems more effective than prayer.
So, why didn’t he lead the prayer by getting on his knees and leading his state in prayer? But yet he critizes President Obama and the feds for being over reaching. Hey Rick, let the people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps or better yet, call your donors and have them donate money to help rebuild the 2nd home kingdom. But I do feel sorrow for the fire victims, but Gov Rick should have lead the prayer and even walked the prayer through and around Possum Kingdom.
@Mesa Mick: Were you this upset when Obama asked everyone to pray for the oil spill, or do you just hate Perry because you disagree with him? Seems a little small-sighted and noninclusive, don’t you think?
@Kerrie: An atheist who claims that prayer doesn’t work is no different than a person refusing to accept that flight is possible, simply because they have never seen an airplane. Prayer works. I have had incredibly specific prayers answered. If prayer didn’t work there would be no Christians in the Middle and Far East. Unfortunately, this is a fallen world, and Satan has significant power. That is why tragic things happen. Prayer is the best way of preventing them. I think C.S. Lewis put it pretty well: “In the truest sense, Christian pilgrims have the best of both worlds. We have joy whenever this world reminds us of the next, and we take solace whenever it does not.”
@Eric: “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” – Jesus (Matthew 6: 5-6)
@Stephen: Prove it. Provide evidence. How many people were praying for their loved ones to survive the towers in the World Trade Center? If prayer works, make something meaningful happen. Get people around the world to pray for something specific and hard – not the crap you usually pray for and see what happens. Set up an honest, testable experiment and prove me wrong. Prayer works about as well as chance does except when it comes to amputees. I’m pretty sure prayer never works for them. There’s a good website that discusses this – https://whywontgodhealamputees.com/superstition.htm . Our brains remember the prayers that were “answered” and forget all the times that it didn’t. Or, like you say, the bad stuff is all satan’s fault. I seriously hope you’re kidding. You won’t get respect from me because you believe in something without evidence.
Southern Medical Journal, Volume 81, No. 7. “Positive Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer in a Coronary Care Unit Population”.
Now, I know you’ll say, there are studies that show that prayer makes no effect. In a scientific study (I am a chemist), if you prove something, and the basis of the test was not flawed, then performing another test with different results does not invalidate the original.
I absolutely agree that horrible, tragic things happen. I believe that God is in ultimate control, but, since we have free will, bad things can happen. As an analogy: imagine you have a loving parent, completely devoted to you, who gave you everything you needed. You, likewise, are completely obedient and loving to them in return. One night someone breaks in and does terrible things. Is it your parent’s fault? No, it is the fault of the person who broke in.
God, while omnipotent, will not violate our free will. I don’t have all of the answers (nor does any other human), but I KNOW that God exists, because of the good He has done in my life.
As far as our brains remembering answered prayers and forgetting unanswered; that is why many Christians keep a prayer journal. It insures that you don’t forget prayers.
Simply put, if you don’t accept the possibility of God, you will never accept that I know what I’m talking about, but God answers all prayers. The answer might be ‘no,’ or ‘not now,’ but they are always answered. Typically, you won’t see the reason for denied prayers, but that’s where faith comes in. I simply accept that I know somewhere around 0.01% of God’s plan, and let Him handle the big picture stuff.
For the evidence; take a look at all the evil in the world… What more evidence do you need?
@Stephen
“Now, I know you’ll say, there are studies that show that prayer makes no effect. In a scientific study (I am a chemist), if you prove something, and the basis of the test was not flawed, then performing another test with different results does not invalidate the original.”
Yes, there are many other studies that show prayer has no effect. Wikipedia lists them under prayer efficacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer#Efficacy_of_prayer_healing .
One test doesn’t really prove anything. Scientists are human and make mistakes, make poorly designed studies and can even influence the results when they don’t mean to do so. That’s why there must be many studies showing the same results. Studies must be replicated, altered, peer reviewed, etc. by other scientists before a good scientist will accept a hypothesis. Also, these studies are silly to begin with. How can you control for all the factors in someone’s health to know that prayer was the cause of a patient’s improvement?
However, please fix some big problem in the world with a giant prayer circle. I vote for a peaceful resolution in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Fix that with the power of prayer, and we’ll talk again. I bet you won’t even consider this challenge. I bet it’s because you know it won’t work.
“I KNOW that God exists, because of the good He has done in my life.”
Try using that kind of evidence in the work you do as a chemist. You would be laughed out of your job. Just because you toss the word sacred in front of a concept doesn’t mean you get to ignore the rules of evidence.
“but God answers all prayers. The answer might be ‘no,’ or ‘not now,’ but they are always answered.”
Prove it. Provide evidence. Basically you’re saying something happens. Maybe what you want happens and maybe what you don’t want happens or maybe something happens later. Stuff happens whether god exists or not and whether prayer works or not. To claim causation from a god because something happens is not possible.
“Typically, you won’t see the reason for denied prayers, but that’s where faith comes in. I simply accept that I know somewhere around 0.01% of God’s plan, and let Him handle the big picture stuff.”
Faith is not evidence. Faith is believing what you know ain’t so…Mark Twain. I want to live in a world of evidence where people take responsibility for their actions in the world and try to make the world a better place. If we all wrote our congress people and donated $25 to a charity that was doing good evidence based work, the women in the Democratic Republic of Congo might have a better life. Prayers have not helped the situation thus far.
“For the evidence; take a look at all the evil in the world… What more evidence do you need?”
Huh? I want ACTUAL evidence. Evil in the world does not mean god exists or prayer works or satan exists.
I’m done discussing this with you Stephen. You’re using magical thinking.
There’s another good website about amputees: http://www.castministries.org
I would bet that there are many Christian amputees who would say that God has ‘healed’ them…
https://onenewsnow.com/Missions/Default.aspx?id=1372892
I’ve gotten good rain for the last 2 days.
Anything else I should be praying for?