John Waters
STEVEN LINDSEY | Contributing Writer
StevenCraigLindsey@GMail.com
John Waters movies have been called a lot of things.
“Vile, stupid, and repulsive.”
“Like a septic tank explosion.”
“Amateur night at the psycho ward.”
Or exponentially more shocking, quotes like “mainstream hit,” “hilarious and heartfelt,” and “a family movie.”
Such is the wildly diverse, description-defying career of an 80-year-old multi-hyphenate who has skillfully tackled nearly every job in the entertainment industry, whether screenwriter, producer, director, author, actor or visual artist.
On Tuesday, the Criterion Collection released Desperate Living (1977) and Hairspray (1988), two films that on paper couldn’t be more different, yet they’re equally subversive in their own ways. One made $1,109 at the box office, the other $6.6 million, but each gets the full Criterion restoration treatment. This includes 4K UHD and Blu-Ray editions, plus loads of extras, including feature-length commentary with Waters himself, outtakes, deleted scenes, making-of featurettes and interviews with stars of both.
Dallas Voice caught up with the legendary “Pope of Trash” a couple of weeks ago to chat about his career so far, lessons he’s learned, and the final year of his lovingly demented Camp John Waters weekend.
Dallas Voice: First of all, congratulations on tying Roman Polanski for the total number of movies in the Criterion Collection. John Waters: Is that true? God, well that’s great! [Criterion] has been absolutely great. I hope they continue their class act, and they’re really wonderful to work with.
Even quote-unquote highly revered director Steven Spielberg doesn’t have a single film in the Criterion Collection, and now you have six. Wow, Steven Spielberg doesn’t have any? Well, I can say Criterion is a great help to me, and it’s like being anointed. Susan Arosteguy has produced all of them, and she’s great, and Lee Kline has restored them all.
Is it some sort of sweet revenge that you have so many movies in the collection, and some well-known directors don’t have any? No, I have no revenge on the film business. The film business has treated me fairly from the beginning. The first time I ever had a screening in the basement of the church, it was sold out. The press didn’t like it, but the people did.
I’m not sure whose idea it was, but it’s kind of genius to release Desperate Living and Hairspray together. Well, I would never use the word genius if it has anything to do with me, but I think it was a brilliant idea in marketing that would be a double feature that would never play in any theater.
If somebody buys both titles, how do you recommend they watch them? Well, it depends what kind of person you are. If you’re new to my world, definitely Hairspray. If you like it tough and you’re a film delinquent, I’d go for Desperate Living. Watch them through first, then again with the commentary, because it’s better with the commentary if you’ve already seen it.
Re-watching them back-to-back, you see more of the subversiveness in Hairspray, even though, in the collective consciousness, it’s remembered as more of a sweet, innocent movie. Oh, definitely, Hairspray is the most subversive. It snuck in. They’re doing Hairspray as a musical in grade schools in Florida, and nobody can complain.
I’m obsessed with bloopers and what scenes get cut from films. So, it was crazy to see the scenes that were cut with Tracy Turnblad (Ricki Lake) that would’ve really changed the movie. The mean Tracy! It’s really good they got cut, it might not have been the success it was. I hadn’t seen those scenes since we cut them out. It was wise to cut them out, but it was funny to see them. It was probably a studio decision, and sometimes the studio is right. And then the whole subplot about Nadine, the Black girl, and her family being racist against white people.
When you record your commentary, do you just wing it from your own memory, or do you go back through journals or notes to take you back to that time? No, I just watch it in free form, like I’m in a psychiatric session, because you remember all the weird things about it that have nothing really to do with making a movie, about the people, what happened that day, you didn’t get this shot, or that kind of stuff. So, I think it brings back more psychiatric trauma than anything. People said, “Did you have fun making those movies?” Oh, it’s fun when it’s a hit and you’re cashing the check and having dinner. It’s not fun at hour 15 in the middle of the woods on Desperate Living with no food.
One of the disc extras is an interview with you by a local Baltimore reporter in your apartment. At the end of the segment, you said, “I really don’t think my movies change anybody’s lives,” but as somebody who’s attended six years of Camp John Waters, I can say your movies absolutely have changed lives. I certainly know they did change people’s lives, and I’m very happy about that. It’s moving when people come up crying to me. To me, I wrote a book called Role Models about the same people who did that for me. And you know I say camp is Jonestown with a happy ending.
Describing Camp John Waters to outsiders can be a challenge, especially describing it to people who may not recognize you from your work. Yeah, it’s hard because even Kathleen Turner and Ricki Lake, like all the people there, said, “This is unbelievable.” You can’t really convey what it’s like, but it’s odd, you know. You say getting recognized, but when I’m on the subway in New York, I’m recognized all the time for being in the Chucky movie, not my movies. And when I was on different TV shows, Law and Order, I got recognized all the time, because I’ve been on that a couple times. It’s just weird, you have to do different things, so you get recognized with every, every, every niche audience there is.
Approaching the last year of camp, how do you see that kind of fitting into your overall legacy? Is that kind of a cherry on top? Well, it was a wonderful experience, and it was like something that I’ll always remember. Nothing is going to take its place. We might come up with something else, but it’s not going to be another camp. It’s not going to be that idea. That idea went really well, and it worked, and I think all the people were there, we have a special memory. It’s like going to an insane school that nobody else ever went to, where everybody wants to go to the reunion.
And what’s your craziest camp memory? I have so many good memories. The guy that came dressed as Straight Divine made me laugh the most. He just had on the Divine dress and was walking around with a can of Bud. “How you doin’, man?” That was really funny, but there was someone dressed as the glory hole in Desperate Living, or really some of the obscure costumes were just amazing. And I remember the first year when somebody slipped under all the cabin doors, “I’ll get you pussy face,” the ransom note from Serial Mom. Just little moments like that were such magic. Oh, and the girl that, well the fan, maybe, who ate her own shit in front of me. Was it her own? No, no, it was a dog turd. She took it out of a little plastic thing and ate it.
Well, on that note, we’re almost to the end of our time. Any parting words for the gay readers of Dallas? Well, not just gay, I’m not a separatist. Gay is not enough, it’s a good beginning. I’m talking to gay and straight, and in between, and even closeted incels. Just have a sense of humor about everything and you can change everybody’s mind and make them accept you. If you preach at them, you make them go the other direction.
Purchase Desperate Living and Hairspray at Criterion.com starting at $39.95.