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- Richard Hernandez
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Earlier this month I reported that Karen Dilbeck, the girlfriend of Seth Winder’s father, had written a book about Seth, who’s accused of the brutal slaying and dismemberment of gay Dallas resident Richard Hernandez in 2008. I also reported that Winder’s first-degree murder trial, long delayed due to competency issues, was finally scheduled to go forward in early May.
Well now it appears as though publication of Dilbeck’s book, “Slipping Into Madness: The Seth Winder Story,” has further delayed Winder’s trial, which has been pushed back until August to give the prosecution and defense a chance to review the manuscript.
“Mr. Winder, the defendant, his dad’s girlfriend wrote a book on the case. We did not know that until last week, and so we’ve ordered the book, and both the defense and the state will be reading the book,” said Jamie Beck, first assistant criminal district attorney for Denton County, which includes the area of Far North Dallas where the murder occurred. “I think there were a couple of other variables [contributing to the delay], but that was the big one, because she’d interviewed the defendant and his dad, so everybody needed that information. It could be inculpatory, it could be exculpatory, it could be both.”
Winder’s attorney, Derek Adame, confirmed that he agreed to the delay, but said he doubts there’s anything relevant in the book.
“I can tell you that these people who are responsible for this book don’t know anything about the actual case itself and have really no idea of what the plan is in defending Seth,” Adame said. “For both sides, it’s only fair that we delay it to get a chance to look at this in case there is something there.”
Adame says he doesn’t plan to argue that Winder, who reportedly suffers from schizophrenia, is not guilty by reason of insanity. A judge initially found Winder incompetent to stand trial, but he’s since been restored to competency. Adame said he plans to argue that Winder “didn’t do it,” adding that he thinks it will be difficult for the state to prove that a murder even occurred, given that Hernandez’s remains were never found.
Dilbeck, meanwhile, believes Winder is guilty and hopes he remains in custody for the rest of his life. Otherwise, Dilbeck said, he’ll stop taking his medication and harm someone else. Dilbeck said she didn’t interview Winder for the book, but reprinted excerpts from his letters from jail. Dilbeck also told me she regrets that the book has delayed Winder’s trial, which certainly wasn’t her intent.
Dilbeck and Winder’s father, Rodney, have said they repeatedly tried to get help for Seth, but law enforcement and the criminal justice system failed to do anything.
“I always knew he’d kill somebody. It was just a question of when, in my mind,” Dilbeck said.
“It’s really a plea for the case of the reform of our laws regarding the mentally ill,” she said of the book. “If people don’t ever go out and try to make changes, nothing will happen.”
Hernandez’s gay friend, Rudy Araiza, called the delay “ridiculous” and “frustrating.”
“Every time I hear he’s going to trial I get excited because now we can finally get some justice, but then it gets delayed and delayed and delayed,” Araiza said. “In some ways I would love to face him and tell him how I feel, and how he’s impacted people’s lives. That to me would probably bring me peace. The way things are going, who knows when or if I’ll ever get that chance.”
This is very sad to further delay. The book was written as a plea for the reform of our mental health laws and that was the reason it was done. Seth’s father wrote at least half of it, recounting his memories of Seth’s life, then we talk about the disease of schizophrenia and advocacy. I believe in advocating for change of our current laws. Seth is a victim of schizophrenia, Richard Hernandez is the ultimate victim of that disease. There is very little understanding of the nature of the disease. Its unfortunate that in our society, there are many severely mentally ill people walking the streets who desperately need help and there is nothing for them. That was what happened here and things need to change.
I have a hard time believing Karen’s intentions. Exactly how much of your book profits have gone to helping the mentally ill?
wow i cant believe that women and his dad come on you let her wirte something she new nothing about. nobody knows seth anymore, not even me and i have known his since 6th grade. i know he didnt do it, review the case and facts, they left to many things un researched. i got alot of that from just the show. and the 1st guy they interviewed in the blue shirt seemed of too me before i even knew what was going on. He didnt have a car, his camp had a dirt road leading to it, where ther e fresh marks, he doesnt drive. someone could have known where he stayed and made sure everything was found there. he was a easy out. something is not right. if he is instant on saying he didnt do it , than he didnt. as for starngling his mom she let his step father beat him he couldnt take it anymore. I am to the point that I dont care what Seths family thinks now they thought they knew him, only his close friends really knew him. These police set him up for failure, I am not a cop but even I can see that. Dont buy the Book. Shame on all of you. They need to focus on the real killer and find him or her, cause there had to be more than one. People need to us there brains I hope nothing ever happens to me in there district cause my case would never be solved.
Nicole you don’t even know the whole story. try watching Another 48 hours and you’ll be convinced that your friend wasn’t the innocent person you think he was! If it were your brother or boyfriend or cousin, you wouldn’t be saying Seth didn’t do it. Give me a break!
Nicole,
for you to say Seth’s father and family did not know him is ridiculous. Seth lived with his father for 8 years before this crime was committed. I am married to his father and I certainly saw his bizarre behavior for two years before Richard was killed. The state of Texas judged him to be mentally ill and put him on medication for schizophrenia. I guess you think you know more than the psychiatrists. You are the the one that did not see him deteriorate over the last years of his life. You don’t know what is in that book. You never read it. I am a writer with a degree in English and Psychology. All I wrote about was the facts of the case, the disease and advocacy for the reform of our laws. Fully fifty percent of schizophrenics cannot recognize that they are sick. His father wrote the book , talking about Seth’s life and the fall into this disease, which is genetic. The fact that he is sick is not his fault. Mental illness does run in his family. Also, it was merely written as an instrument to help other families in this situation and to help promote the change of laws. No one has made any money off of the book at all. If you think it was done for that you are dead wrong. You are judging people and their motives that you know nothing about. Also, there are a lot of things that you don’t know about the crime that other people know that will come out at a trial.
Who writes a book and gets no profit from it?? Surely you can understand that writing said book looks bad.And makes the authors look bad as well.
Nicole can’t even spell and she say’s others are dumb?
I knew Richard Hernandez for 22 years, I challenge “Anyone” to tell me that they knew more about what happened then what I know! Even that dumbass Adame doesn’t have a clue as to what happened, call me I’ll tell you everything! I know his whole Life story and only I know! So everyone that thinks that Seth is innocent can just shut the hell up! =)
Here is the problem I have with the whole thing…I need to first clarify that I am across the country and do not know this boy, or anything about him apart from what I saw on the first 48. Justice calls for guilt “without a reasonable doubt”, correct?? There was no confession, no body, and only what I would call circumstantial physical evidence. The physical evidence that was seen on the show is stuff, that only shows an appearance of guilt, which is no guilt at all! There was no witness to the crime of murder in this case, no body, and no confession. Based on the blood on the back pack, blood on the shower curtin found in the tent, and blood on the sword, shows nothing but a REASON to believe he killed that man, however, reason does not qualify fact! Although it may be hard to believe, and granted not very likely, but that stuff could have been placed there by the killer…whom Seth may have known and known committed the crime, and have a vow of secrecy with that person to never snitch. I doubt this is the case but it is possible…and because there is a possibility of innocence he should therefore not be found in guilt, because there is no “eye witness”, no confession, no video, and nothing that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he was the killer! I think this is a flaw in our justice system, and has caused many to be imprisoned that are not guilty, I would rather the guilty run free than to ruin the life of the innocent! DNA as primary source of guilt and innocence apart from confession and multiple eye witness is only reason, hypothosy and theory, not a matter of physical fact!!
Jeremy, i wish we were in the same place right now. I’d give you a high five and some dap! I have been saying that for years. you should run for office, thankyou for your comments.
Mr. Oxford I agree with you 100%. I just watched the first 48, and that show is normally good at showing the audience facts but they have had a few showing in what I believe is only circumstantial and still charge the suspect in custody, this would be one of those shows. I could clearly see that Seth needs some type of help, while the police thought he was being a smart ass. I pray they find Richards body. I shed tears for him and his family. I don’t care how many times the case is delayed as long as they do it right. Our justice system is flawed!
Wow!…I actually thought I would be alone in this! I have a family member currently serving a 15 yr. My views on justice were once very nieve. I always assumed if u made it on the news then u must be guilty! Unfortunately that is not the case. People who r charged with a crime are guilty until they hire a $100k + lawyer! People like Nancy Grace make me sick, they infect the public with arbitrary logic and cause people to believe they r guilty before they even step foot in a trial! Prosecutors r more concerned with conviction rate than they r with truth so they can climb the political latter, and a lot of defense attorneys r concerned with just that quick buck! I have often thought of going back to college and pursuing a law degree because we need more people in the legal system fighting for true justice and not just for “convictions”! I stand firm on what I believe, if u can’t prove beyond a shadow if a doubt that it is imperical fact, it should not 1. Be charged 2. Be brought before a court!!
In reference to the last 4 comments if you don’t know more detail about the case other than what you have seen “on tv” shut your ass up that man is guilty and anyone who writes and publishes a book but doesn’t profit is a book of non sense that no one buys….keep me up to date Rudy I’m in Arlington as well 🙂
Maria, you obviously failed to pay attention to the point of my original statement! Were u a witness to the “murder”? Did you see a crime take place? Did Seth confess to you? The point is, no one should be found guilty of anything if it can not be proven “beyond a reasonable doubt” in the court of law!! Convictions that are won by “circumstance” is no reason to convict wether the person is guilty or not!…because if that is the case who is to say that one day we could not find ourselves in the wrong place at the wrong time?? I would rather a guilty man walk free than to see the innocent rot in jail for something they did not committ! That’s my point!
You say that now but what if the true victim who is Richard were your brother,son,cousin,dad. Based on the evidence screw if he confessed or not you sure would not be saying anything at all. Judging from what I saw Seth is definitely guilty and I’m sure Richards family didn’t care to hear your negative opinion when they are still dealing with the courts and his mom won’t even see justice prevail. Say what the hell you want but when it happens to your family ill be sure to root for guilty
What Jeremy and his friends are speaking about is what qualifies the young man to be brought to trial. In extreme cases, when separate circumstantial evidence starts to pile up, the DA can make the call to formally charge him with the crime. Afterwards, it’s up to a jury of his peers. The appeal process may prove your points, but in the end it’s up to 9 people.
Hazen, I think you understood my point. Maria, u are speaking from a subjective point of view, I can’t say that I would feel any different than the victim’s family if the shoe was switched to my foot…anytime a crime like that takes place the victim’s family always wants somone brought to justice, they don’t care if the pope did it! If there is an illusion to guilt in a case like that the family is always gonna assume the “pound of flesh” be brought from whoever “looks” or “appears” guilty. My issue is not about the victim, and it is not about Seth…my issue is the matter of guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt”…I.e., multiple eye witnesses, video, admission, ect… The law has the burden of proving guilt, not innocence, and unfortunately deduction (reason or circumstance) now days trumps induction (physical evidence) and I am sorrow, but I don’t think it’s right to prosecute anybody, if the court system cannot prove Their case based on physical fact!!! Science cannot turn theory into law unless it can be physically proven it is more than theory or hypothesis…I.e. Macro evolution cannot be considered fact because it does not have the ability to be proven physically! The line of justice that I have been harping on this whole time has caused MANY innocent people to be locked up behind bars for years, put to death even, and many times caused people to spend the rest of their lives behind bars for crimes they DID NOT committ! There was a woman charged with child molestation in my town a few months back, it was all over CNN, Nancy Grace, Larry king live, and local news…if she would have been found guilty she would have served over 150 yrs. As her sentence, which means that even at the time eligible for parole she would have been long dead. Nancy Grace and her know it all attitude had public opinion believe she was guilty, local and national news posed this woman as guilty, and she wasn’t!!…the problem was the local D.A. Cared more about makeing a headline name for himself, and the judge to show his repute, than the facts! They coached the children to believing what was said was fact!…that’s what prosecutors do all the time to jurry’s! Thankful the woman was smart enough to collect an a-team of defense lawyers that publically showed the fallacies that was taking place! Later she was interviewed on Larry King and she was still having to fight to get her child back after aquital, the judge and D.A. Lost Their positions in catoosa co. Ga., and she is currently involved in a multi-million dollar lawsuit against the county, and old cases are now having to be retried! This is the kind of thing that happens every day in our court systems, and it should strike fear in our hearts if we are ever cought in the wrong place at the wrong time!! Many don’t believe this happens, but it does, and in this case somone got caught! So place urself there and let’s see how u then feel when u step out of the relm of subjectiveness to being more objective when it comes to enforcing guilt in the court if law!!
Okay really I don’t care what he’s saying and I’m not big on reading so I’m not going to read all that crap so whatever i just would love to see Seth sentenced to death and Texas is notorious for doing that so hopefully it will happen in this case HAVE A GOOD DAY!
Maybe u should read a little more Maria and then you wouldn’t be so hasty to jump to your conclusions…I’m sure u wouldn’t feel that way if Seth was ur brother, father, or husband! Rather u would plead that the courts have mercy on ur family member!…atleast I know I would!
Im pretty sure Seth is guilty. My own daughter had some issues with him before this murder took place. He was not in a good place at all…
People make lots of assumptions when they truly don’t know the facts of the case or the people involved. Its easy to do from the outside. By the way, Seth will not be put to death, they reduced the charge to first degree murder a long time ago, so the death penalty is off the table.
I know it was reduced but it would be good for all of Texas if he was given the death sentence it would be one less killer sitting in prison living off our taxes and if it were my brother,dad,husband,or son if he were guilty I sure would not waste my time trying to save him and I know that for a fact my biological father is in prison for the rest of his life for a crime he commited and he called me once and he was told by me never call my house again I only wish he would of received the death penalty as well and we were very close I have no sympathy for anyone who commits such a crime and my bestfriend was part of the notorious Texas 7 I’m glad to see he was put to rest by the justice system
One thing we can count on is that Seth will not be roaming the streets again. He terrifies me. He was on drugs all right, the wrong kind for him though. The guy was a mental case for sure. In later life at least. I knew him when he was in high school as well..not the same person at all. He needs to be where he is right now.
He should remain locked up for life. Hopefully, the jury will decide to do that because he would definitely be a danger to others off his psychiatric meds. There is no place for him outside a prison. Illegal drugs only make schizophrenics worse. When such a crime is committed, the perpetrator should remain incarcerated for life, mentally ill or not.
If I were in the jury it wouldn’t even be a second thought of guilty or not guilty. He’s beyond guilty let him rott in prison
Thank goodness people like Maria would not be allowed on a jury. Passing judgment before knowing all the facts! I’m not saying he is innocent, I’m not saying he is guilty. I’m saying ,this is the USA and EVERYONE has a right to a FAIR trial. If you don’t like it, too bad!
@ ZOOSKI who really cares about your opinion so next moving on I’ve seen all I need to see that dude is guilty. If you people don’t notice you can say whatever you want about me and it doesn’t affect me I give a shit less about your opinion I’m all about justice for Richard and nothing else so kiss my ass
Who the hell said I’m not allowed to serve as a juror. I’ve been in a couple of hearings. I’m not a criminal nor am I an illegal alien. So ZOOSKI why am I not allowed to serve as a juror
@ Maria
You would not be allowed to serve on a jury due to a pre-developed bias or prejudice. It is a fairly common way for someone who wants to get out of jury duty to do so. A person just shows up and says “I’d convict the F***er just because reason XY or Z” (usually its “just because I have to be here”, but that will get you contempt and a fine or day or two in jail yourself (at least where I’m from), but could also be due to race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.) before hearing all of the evidence and, presto, you are out of jury duty. I truly hope for the integrity of the justice system that you are never asked to serve as juror.
@Jeremy
Yes, Nancy Grace is evil (she makes me think of the Salem Witch Hunts)! So is Judge Judy, Judge Joe Brown and the like. Their shows often do not revolve around the law or spirit of the law, rather, around popular opinion. If you look at the disclaimers at the end, it says that the participants have agreed in advance to abide by the host’s judgment, most likely because the decision would not stand up in a true court of law. Glad they are only allowed to touch things that would fall under civil law.
If he did it (which is likely the case from the circumstantial evidence I’m privy to (though I myself would not be able to vote guilty given what is available)), I hope he confesses and gives Richards’ loved ones some peace. I worry about my kin if they’re even an hour late, I can’t imagine their pain.
@NDeadmen…well put, I agree with all that u just said…u r the type of juror that would look at the facts and not circumstance…I’m in the same position as u r concerning the thing! Thanks for your rational words!!
@NDeadman Thank you for explaining to Maria, and everyone else, what I meant when I said thank goodness you would not be allowed on a jury. I refuse to post an explanation to her, as you can’t make someone who doesn’t want to learn, learn. There is another word for that, but I don’t want to call someone ignorant. Oops.
And again your opinions mean jack shit to me. I have served as a juror in cases before you cam sit and say all you want “WHAT U THINK” but I’m on this page for Richard and not your opinions. I didn’t say I wanted to serve as a juror in this case in which I’ve seen all I needed to see I just said I wish they would sentence Seth to death I’m tired of dishing out my tax money for worthless crap such as him!!!
@Maria
And with that additute how is your opinion supposed to be valued? If you aren’t here for my opinion or anyone elses, why do you continue to respond to our posts? I think our opinions effect you quite deeply.
My mother taught me to treat others as I would like to be treated, regardless of how they treat you, and perhaps, some day, they will be a better person for it. So Maria, I am sorry that our posts have apparently wounded you so deeply as to cause such an outlash.
@Jeremy & Zookski
Thanks for the kind words.
And again who cares what your mom once said. No they don’t affect me in any way however it is amusing for days when I am bored. I am who I am better or not. You all do not know me so I don’t care I joined this page for Richard and for Rudy who was Richards bestfriend and also someone I’ve developed a very strong friendship with in person and I see how he’s affected by the loss and the trial that’s dragging out for no darn good reason at all.
Maria, Your annoying as hell!!!
Anyways Seth has written me from jail and it’s comforting. Seth again people prior to illness was the most respectful kind person, period! Never got into fights, nor harmed anyone. He slowly started getting more and more ill, mind you not his choice! I don’t know the facts behind this case, but agree he very easily could have been framed. He was very ill and anyone arround him could easily see that.
Maria, i too have had someone torn from me in a violent way.
But i wanted justice the right way.
you need to see someone about your anger issues. You have alot of them. Espically when all you do is yell at others about their own opinions. That is a red flag right there. I am sure you don’t care what other people think. But they are allowed to have their say even if you don’t like it. Please get some help of you will regret it later on in life. I also agree that you are not a a good choice for a jury. You make snap decisions which does not leave your mind open for all avenues of guilt or not guilty. I am sorry for your loss.
How can you imagine how it “Feels” to be dismembered in your own apartment/living space when your dead? although im sure that the energy lost from the body/ out of body experience of passing on was horrible though, especially watching your own body being dissmembered like that in front under your new surroundings, feeling as if you know where you are but kind of dont know where you are at the same time. i definitly feel sorry for those that have ascended to a higher plain from death of a sudden horrific crime. perhaps there could be a way to talk to the deceased man from his apartment where his entity could possibly be roaming, that is assuming if he is still earthbound and has not passed on further. im not talking about heaven or hell, just a higher plain of existence/ new beginning in death not an ending. as for the accused im sure the mental illness is true, and that one way alive or dead he will understand what he had done to another life. its just up to certain authorities/doctors/caregivers now. it has been proven that people who have passed on and continue to stay earthbound can communicate with the living through new means of electronic devices such as digital recorders and things like that. many have been documented from murder cases and murder sites from 100 yrs ago to the very recent of the actual dead relating thier own voices and thoughts or memories through a recorded device even explaining what happened to them and who killed them and details only the killer would know and only the deceased would know. even documented cases of the killer that has passed on will give accounts of its own wrong doings and tragic details of what had occured. ive seen many police/skeptics all witness thier own minds and ideas change from hearing such voices and actual evidence of those who have passed on tell thier either tragic stories or devious details in thier crimes. Darks83495@aol.com mail me your thoughts if you wish.
Ox-man, Deadman and the like are completely right about the judicail system, facts and everything from the start should be evaluated as well as marias state of mind in this post, im sure your most likely a house-wife divorced with children of an unknown age, tormented from a lack of torment, and rarely go outside except for work, feeling in your own mind injustices of a determined sentence, a god-fearing american that looks at something from an outside point of view instantly comming to a conclusion without weighing everything and all information given to you. your probably diabetic as well and love to sneak to the cheesecake factory sometimes with no one knowing, and spend your hard earned money at wal-mart on clothes to tight for you and definitly hats or scarfs too tight for your massive concaved ego-mind. as you love to think inside of a lead box never wanting to escape from it and feel perfectly relaxed in there without wanting to explore differences in opinions or other peoples feelings. HAVE A NICE DAAAAYYYyyyyyy. Ox-Man good reasoning, imagine a place with a percentage of god-fearing people. im pretty sure i know where that place is. its right in front of our eyes
Seth may be sick, but he is guilty as hell too. He will be locked away the rest of his life so we can pay for him to live.
I find it interesting that people have issue with trying someone for murder because the body was not found. Should we live in world were successful disposal of the body earns a walk from the justice system?
Blood evidence in the possession of the accused
Documented use by the accused of the victims credit and debit cards
Eye witnesses placing the accused at the apartment complex on the day of the murder
The victims digital camera with photos of the accused in the victims apartment in the possession of the accused.
Don’t see reasonable doubt
As a regular viewer of “First 48,” I’ve seen PLENTY of thugs, gang bangers, drug dealers, etc. Seth isn’t any of these things. He’s ill. Guilty or not, he obviously suffers from a disease that affects his mental state, and lijely his ability to understand right from wrong and/or delusions from reality. My heart and prayers go out to the victim’s family, and also to Seth. What people don’t realize is the fact that Seth’s family also grieves for the lost of Seth as they knew him. This is the first episode I’ve ever seen (and I’ve seen MANY) where I finished the show with overwhelming sorrow for both the victim and the alleged killer. I was so compelled by the story I wanted to research Seth’s fate. I hope he is given the psychiatric help he needs, and I only hope his story will bring attention and funding to mental health.
Quick Question Mr. Oxford……..Wasn’t it Seth walking into Target using Richards credit card? Wasn’t it Seth that rented the hotel rooms with Richards credit card? Wasn’t it Seths backpack that reciepts were found in? Wast it all caught on video? This guy doesn’t have a chance in hell on getting off. Body or no body! Which, I might add, there was NO excuse for them not to search that landfill the first day they went there. Many states with crimes like this search and usually end up finding the body. If I were Richards Family, I’d be pissed that the police didn’t bother doing a grid search at the fill.
I am disgusted that this guy’s lawyer would go for not guilty to get him off.
Clearly, the murder was especially brutal given him dismembering the body and throwing it in the garbage. The act of cutting up the body and disposing it clearly shows to me that he knew very clearly what he did was wrong right after he comitted the act.
This guy is a poster child for the death penalty.
@Robyn : I completely agree with you! I also recently watched the “First 48” episode on this case. I felt compelled to search the internet for an update on the case and came across this message board.
My heart goes out to the Hernandez family. Richard didn’t deserve to die, let alone be so brutally murdered. I hope they get the closure they need.
Whether Seth is guilty or not, the face remains that Richard was murdered, and someone out there knows what happened. I hope something positive comes out of this… like mental health reform, or legislation to prevent another brutal crime like this. I’m curious to see how Seth’s trial will eventually play out.
I just saw this case on “First 48” and it bothered me more than most of the cases I see on there. All of them are tragic, but are usually gunshots. But this crime scene indicated a horrible, awful last few minutes for the victim desperately trying to escape the blade of that madman.
Based on just that show and Winder’s expressions/tone after arrest lead me to believe that he has definite mental issues, but also knew exactly what he was doing and was able to successfully “dispose” of the body. Primary motive is robbery, secondary motive is revenge/retribution.
So Winder is schizo, begins self-medicating with street drugs, is finally reduced to prostituting himself to feed his drug habits. Not being gay himself, this probably brought much shame and animosity towards his “dates”. Needing money and having a lot of pent up rage against gays in general led to the vicious brutality that followed. The victim was just at the wrong place at the wrong time when he snapped. If it wasn’t Hernandez, it would have been someone else.
A tragedy on both sides, but one thing is for sure, Winder can NEVER walk the streets again. Medicated or not.
Hello everyone! First of all I’m Richards bestfriend of 26 years and going even though he’s not with us. I’ve been reading everyones comments on here and i just want some of you to understand some key issues. First of all, Seth was well aware of his behavior during his visit at Richard’s place the day he decided to kill him. There was a motive….to rob, kill,and get rid of any physical evidence, which he did. Seth knew that with Richards credit card he would be free to shop without anyone giving him trouble, hell he even stopped at Starbucks that same morning of the murder for a cup of coffee…no donut with that today Sir??? I meany come on, and then a shopping spree at target, then gets a hotel room. He was aware and knew what he was doing, i don’t buy the “I can’t remember” bullshit that Seth was saying. Okay another thing is the police…the guy in charge of the invertigation was “Clueless” to what the gay world was all about! They didn’t even check the landfield for his body for more then a couple of hours…WTF?? If it were a straight man, congress man, or a member of the police force. I would bet your top dollar thay would have searched come Hell or high Water. I’m disgusted with the fact that I know Richard, and I know what Seth was doing with all knowledge of his “Actions” If any of you would like to reach out to me, please do so. Mightyzx2@aol.com
it creeps me out that a person recieves mail from Seth and finds it comforting…bet you like John Gacy too….
And again…. Wow and you all sit here and talk about judging people first of all I don’t see how you get I have anger issues and I’m yelling from my typing wow… Typed words are expressionless and yeah right I wish I could be a stay at home mom if I even had kids and unfortunately I’m not I’m a very respected registered nurse and I enjoy my job and rarely going outside yeah right I live a fast party life and I wouldn’t change I don’t have kids and nor do I ever want any married yes I am to a very respected Marine Reservist and he’s also a police officer so sit and judge all you want your entitled to your opinion as was I doesn’t mean I have to give a crap about your opinion this page is obviously for Richard that’s who I remain standing by as well as his family and friends…
@ Cr I definitely have to agree with you RE: your last comment… That is awkward if he were free you might be his next victim
@Maria, we had an incident with Seth right before Richard was murdered. We live in The Colony and had known Seth in high school. He clearly was not the same person in his later years. One morning my daughter got up to go to school at around 5 in the morning. Seth was outside in our driveway on a bicycle just sitting there. It scared her so badly she called our neighbor who immediately called the police. Prior to this incident my daughter used to see Seth in Carrollton and would from time to time offer him a ride. On the last ride, he got very agitated and very improper with her in ways she to this day will never repeat. He was clearly mentally ill and had a mean and weird streak as well. She was terrifed of him then shortly after , the murder happened. I thank God everyday that she called the police and never saw him again.
Maria is NOT the bad person in this. Seth is.
Maria is not the bad person on this board…clearly Seth is. RIP Richard.
@ CR Thank you for that I guess some people have nothing else to do other than sit online and try to ridicule people they don’t know,but let them say whatever makes them feel better. That’s a pretty scary and creepy encounter for your daughter, just goes to show no matter how much you think you know someone you never really know everything about them glad your daughter was able to avoid ending up a victim of Seth that’s not luck that was God protecting her. Hope you had a wonderful Holiday!!! 🙂
@Maria, yes by the grace of God she avoided any really bad encounter with Seth. It scared all of us to death though…especially in retrospect. Hope your holidays were good too lady!
yes devastated Maria eh? Sovdevasted you thought she would
rush out a book as soon as possible To profit from two families
tragedy. No there is absolutely nothing sick or greedy about
that…… Please!!!!!!
Yes, Archie, you know it all. NO profits were made from that book at all, zero. Really greedy, huh? . The only purpose of the book was to point out the flaws in the system that allows mentally ill people slip through the cracks over and over and over again. Of course it did no good at all, but the motive was good Talk about judging others indeed! If one does not take a tragedy and try to prevent other tragedies in the future, what good is one at all? A lot of money was lost getting the thing published in the first place. You know if there was no activism on the part of others, nothing would ever change. What about Kendra’s law? I don’t know about the training the police in Dallas County receive, but the police in Denton County need crisis intervention training in how to deal with mentally ill adults. Over and over and over again attempts were made through law enforcement for help with Seth before this happened. If you really had any knowledge of all about the book, you would have read that, but you didn’t and you have judged it without reading it as many people have done. I watched my husband try repeatedly to get help for his son and i tried over and over to do the same, but no one would help us. I watched the family suffer and tried my best to help, and there are many others that suffer with mentally ill family members. I wanted to help those people too. If we had been able to get help for Seth, then this would not have happened. The book only sold 28 copies, not including the ones I bought myself of which there are no royalties. You have to sell many more books than that to realize one cent. As I said, it wasn’t done to make a profit anyway, but to try to help people with mentally ill family members and to try to point out our very flawed laws and lack of help for the mentally ill. To also show that this was preventable, if only those who had the ability to help, would have.
What you have failed to understand too Archie is that Seth’s father co-authored this book. He wanted a chance to talk about the far reaching effects of having a mentally ill family member.
K, you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.By the time someone was trying to help Seth, he was of age and did not have to do anything he didnt want to regarding his mental health.I would think that since he was discharged from the service though, someone would have made it a point to insist that he do something for his condition.
Cr, that is the problem, the police would always sya he had to threaten someone or himself or they would do nothing; however, one policeman told me that they could intervene if they thought it necessary. Its true, though there were nurmerous attempts to get him to seek help himself as an adult, he would not. That is why I think families should be able to try to at least get someone hospitalized for an evaluation. His illness was obvious to others, but not to him. From what I’ve learned, up to fifty percent of people with schizophrenia don’t think they are sick. I think the laws and police guidelines need to be tweaked somewhat so that people such as this can be dealt with properly to avoid such cases as this. I’m glad you and your daughter are alright. I understand that fear.
K, I have dealt with schizophrenics before and you are correct. They do not see the illness at all. We knew Seth back in middle and high school days. He was not to my knowledge sick at that time. When my daughter saw him again before the current situation, he was a TOTALLY different and scary person. I am sorry for everyone involved. Is there any indication of when he will go to trial??
cr, well this illness seems to hit males in their late teens and early twenties. The trial is suposed to go forward January 24. They’ve put it off numerous times before. The consensus seems to be that it will go ahead. An announcement hearing is supposed to be Jan 13. I suppose afer that it will be known whether it will proceed or not. They need to go ahead. You can look on the Denton County sheriff’s website after the 13th to see if they put if off again. Hopefully not.
this Jeramy oxford guy is a dork. you watch a tv episode of first 48 and all of the sudden you are an expert and youre gonna back to college to fix the justice system? lol come on bro. IT WAS A TV PROGRAM. YOU DONT KNOW JACK ABOUT THE CASE. a lot of the evidence takes a long time to process. dont you think maybe there is a little more evidence that wasnt processed before the episode ran? and even if there wasnt, isnt that why there is a court system? so that a detective doesnt just decide DEATH? i get what youre saying about all this crimial justice stuff not being perfect, but bro THE TRIAL HAS NOT EVEN TAKEN ITS COURSE.
The evidence against him is pretty damn strong. if the cops just threw their arms up and said screw it, they would be guilty if the dude turned around and murdered another person.
also, people who agreed with you are equally ignorant.
“Dude” thank you for your intellectual display rhetoric, I’m so hurt on the inside from your slaying…get real!..lol. You obviously didn’t pay attention to a single thing that I said, especially to my original post. You missed the point. So go back and re-read what you sought to respond to. Your mouth is quicker than your brain. At any rate, I stated my position in my original post and it still stands the same. Sorry to waste your time in an effort to slam to me, I personally would find something else better to do with my time; but hey, that’s just me! Take care and thank you for your ever so intelligent words and educated vocabulary! 😉
@dude
Yes, it is likely that most, if not all people, posting on this page either do not have all of the facts or have already assigned a verdict one way or another or both, however, not asking questions or participating in discussions breed the ignorance you are so willing to accuse others of.
Think of a world where everyone just says “screw it, authority says he’s guilty or he looks guilty, so he must be”. Would you really want to live in a complacent society where we are lead around like cattle by authorities with no more education than you or I?
I agree that the evidence given on the show makes him look damn guilty, likely he is, but questions still need to be asked or we are doomed to complacency, to never grow. The evidence is strong, but can it honestly be said, beyond a question or doubt, that this man is guilty? Like I said, I don’t have all the facts either, but if a man is to be put to death, shouldn’t all questions and avenues be explored? As a juror, would you need to ask these questions before ending another life, just so you could sleep at night? If you don’t ask them, are you any better than the criminal?
Also, your argument is nonsensical. You, in the same breath, acknowledge that there are issues with in the justice system and then imply that it should be trusted in. Isn’t the way we keep people from snap judgment and sentencing by asking questions and finding out all of the facts before passing judgment?
@NDeadman: spoken very well and with truth. I deffinately agree 110% with you and the position you hold! Couldn’t say it any better myself…you get what I have been sayin.
jeremy-
sorry you got all butt hurt. i hope your shameless ass kissing of deadman helped. your ramblings are still stupid.
detectives dont decide guilt. courts do. the man was simply worthy of being tried for the murder. right now no one can say if he is guilty or not. when all the facts are laid out in court, then you can play johnnie cochran.
deadman-
question asking and intelligent analysis is great, but a public statement like “and because there is a possibility of innocence he should therefore not be found in guilt… I think this is a flaw in our justice system” is uninformed, disrespectful, and harmful, especially from a couch potato. dont take a crap on the hardworking detectives and lawyers while THEY THEMSELVES are still gathering evidence and analyzing the facts.
and your nonsensical comment was nonsensical. yea the court systems screw up way more than they should, but crapping on them before the trial has even started is moronic.
@dude
For the sake of the argument, let’s suppose that someone is picked up for shoplifting from a store. The security guard sees them acting shady, so he/she picks them up. The person is then searched (which is illegal in my jurisdiction, but for the sake of the argument) and is found to have on them an new item, still in packaging, sold at that store. They are unable to produce a receipt, but claim to have purchased the item elsewhere. Nobody witnessed the person pocketing the item, there are other stores in the area that sell the item, but the person does not remember where it was purchased. They are sent for a hearing (again for the sake of the argument, because, in my jurisdiction the security guard must witness the theft and never lose sight of the thief). Do you find this person guilty or innocent?
I know that this analogy is not perfect (obviously the scale of the crime is incomparably smaller), but if any part of you was willing to give the accused shoplifter reasonable doubt, for which the sentence is usually a fine and persona non-grata and maybe 30 to 60 days, don’t you think that the burden of evidence should be somewhat higher for someone that will be put to death?
Like I said originally, he is likely very, very guilty, but finding holes in the prosecution’s case is not crapping on them. It is make an observation, asking a question (or making a statement) and in some cases looking for feedback from peers. If they have screwed up before the trial even begins then they do deserve to be crapped on for that (for example, not finding Richard’s body is a screw up on multiple levels, none of the least was the impact on his family).
Furthermore, IF the procecution is still investigating a. They should not be at trial and b. They should be happy for the latest delay prompted by the book release.
I do not share your opinion that people who may be innocent should go to jail or most certainly, they should not be put to death. I think death penalties should be reserved for cases with irrefutable evidence, such as DNA, video surveillance or the like (if there must be one at all).
For me, I would have to question the retrieval of the sword:
Retrieved from a publicly accessible area
Is this capable of doing what the prosecution is claiming it did (I don’t know if they are claiming that it was used in the murder or if it just had Richards blood on it and was in Seth possession)
How can the prosecution claim dismemberment if no body was retrieved? (I would find this inflammatory)
Given Seth’s circumstances, is it possible that he was a convenient bust?
Already has family contacting the police to have him taken off the streets due to his mental condition
Happens to be in contact with someone who turns up dead
2 birds, 1 stone, gets the Psych patient off the street and gives them a clearance
Yes, he was found in possession of some of Richards things and his credit cards (and he used them), but friends and family have all said that Richard was often kind to Seth, could he have lent the items? The cards? Could Seth have stumbled upon the scene and just used Richards death as an opportunity to take his things?
That is not me crapping on you or anyone else. That is me forming my own opinion based on my reading and questions I have asked based on the information I have.
You have failed to show me where my comment about your non-sense argument does not make sense. You said that we have a justice system to deal with these things and yet you still acknowledge flaws. If no one questions the flaws, what good is a flawed system? How does the system get fixed? Don’t try to strong-man the argument. How does it make sense to trust, unquestioningly, in a flawed system? How does it make sense to not attempt to reform what is broken?
Since when is asking a question a personal slight?
deadman,
i appreciate the logical and well thought out response. you are certainly allowed to analyze the case and form your own opinions. The issue i have is more with fore-drawn conclusions. Stating that a man should be found not guilty and taking shots at the judicial system seems premature for this case.
My “nonsensical” argument was never an argument at all, simply an understanding. Our judicial system is imperfect, and it always will be. But regardless, it has to be relied upon to do its job. Much as an imperfect co-worker is still relied upon to perform his job. I would personally choose not to berate the co-worker before every task, just because I know he is imperfect. Learn from your mistakes and move forward. Up until this point in the case the system has worked well. The evidence was strong enough to send the man to court, and he should be tried. Give the system a chance to process the case in court before deciding there is insufficient evidence.
I’m not getting into the details of the case because an episode of first 48 does not qualify me to judge this. All I will say is that the evidence was strong enough to send him to court. Do you agree with this?
Also, your statement
“I do not share your opinion that people who may be innocent should go to jail or most certainly, they should not be put to death. I think death penalties should be reserved for cases with irrefutable evidence, such as DNA, video surveillance or the like (if there must be one at all)”
has no relevance to anything I have said. There must have been some sort of misunderstanding.
Any new updates pertaining to his trail?
Delayed until May.
Saw it on first 48. Is the lad still in custody? I feel sorry for this guy for some or other weird reason. Hope the Hernandez family will find closure in this matter. I can not imagine how they must feel. A sad sad story indeed.
Wonder why they keep delaying this trial??
Delayed until May?? For crying out loud just put a bullet in this idiots head and be done with it. This guy should be shot, then his family should be sent the bill for the bullet!
Mr. BoJangles…..I’ll pay for the bullet! This has gotten so far out of hand. And this guy has been on a “Free”ride thanks to his sorry Lawyer that doesn’t know crap about the whole situation. I know more about this case then his lawyer, and I know more about Richard then anybody invovled in this case. Why don’t they come talk to me?? Closure is like a tunnel with a mire light at the end, and eveytime this Joker gets extra time to spend without conviction, that light gets dimmer. It would rather be that if anyone shot this guy, that closure would finally be carved in Stone! But for whatever reason he’s been given a grant to live, although Richard didn’t have that option, why should he? Okay enough…I tend to get angry just the thought of this Asswipe and his lawyer milking the Justice system. Reach out to me anytime and anyone..at Mightyzx2@aol.com
Rudy Araiza
Actually his lawyer Derek Adame is a pretty good. The comments on this thread have been very good except for Maria.. Geez lady you really are very aggressive and not very fun to chit chat with.
On another note though, I hope the family of the Richard finds some sort of balance in the grief, because one can never get over it. I also think that writing a book about this, could have only been profit motivated, and maybe a small midgen of awareness motivated. And that is part of the reason this trial has been delayed again, so that delay can be blamed purely on Seth’s stepmother. Cheers
Rudy, I understand your pain in this but if you were not a witness why would they(lawyers) talk to you?
I imagine this will go on for years and years before it goes to trial.
@ Dude
You’re in the same boat as Maria. Jeremy has stayed civil on this board and all of a sudden you lash out against him and act like a twelve year old. Pretty lame
CR– My apologies =) But I was refering to the investigative team (detectives) that worked his case. They were asking the wrong set of friends and or people what they knew about Richard. I knew Richard for twenty some odd years and i know more about Richard then “Anyone” will ever know. =) Richard confided in me about his life, both secret and personal, I even remember the time he told me he had taken Seth in that once to help him out. But i just appreciate you all keeping this log going, and hope that one day we his family and friends can make peace of all this!
JUST saw this case tonight on a rerun of The First 48 and I’ve been surfing the net for an hour trying to find more recent information. I read many of the posts, but am still wondering if Winder has yet to go to trial. I will be praying for the Hernandez family to find peace and closure. If anyone has an update, please post. Just curious. Thanks.
Bec….thank you for all the kind words! =)
@Bec, trial rescheduled for May.
First my deepest empathy go to Richard’s family and friends like Rudy! I watched this on a rerun of the first 48 and have done some reading as well. I hear the arguments about the flawed judicial system (Jeremy) and the need to bring questions to that very system (NDeadman). Two quick points
1. I know it can be a slippery slope but what happened to common sense in this country? The receipt, the blood, the store video and just so happens “I don’t know” where he is give me a freaking break. I understand things are not always as they seem but “Come on Man!”.
2. The judicial system will always be flawed because it involves human judgement which is rooted in our personal biases and perceptions. Evident by not guilty verdicts (OJ, Robert Blake, Michael Jackson, mistrial (Phil Spector) I love football, Beretta and certainly MJ, but again “Come on Man!”
I am a Black & born in America (because I like the term “Black” much better than African-A. I tell everyone we are ALL prejudice of beautiful or unattractive, well dressed or not groomed, short or tall. WE ALL JUDGE those outward things which will keep the system flawed. The system is not perfect and clearly biased toward African-A(not making this a racial argument) & Latinos, anyone from either category would have been executed & buried by now and this guy is awaiting trial.
The system is also ALL WE HAVE! and I don’t think any of us would prefer living anywhere but America over any other country! so COME ON MAN!
This is really a tragic story for everyone associated. But more so for the family that has no body to say their goodbye’s to. From what the show displayed this was a human for get if he was a GAY MAN he was a living being who was loved and deserves justice. Any court on this earth will be able to see the CLEAR truth when he goes to court and whatever the vertic maybe we all have to pay for the choices we make in life at the end of our own journey. I praye for the family that has to endure this PAIN, i praye for the family that has to endure the fact that Winder is a possible muder. Two families lost in this case but justice will rise.
@ K ….so u knew Seth would kill someone someday…so u are saying in a round about way that Seth is guitly of this muder…and hes pleading not gulity..so u want ur boyfriends son to get off and walk the streets killing others? Oh and if u would have WAITED with your book the case would be going to trial now so its your fault its not!.
Rick, you don’t have your facts correct. The trial was twice delayed after the book was published, once because Seth’s attorney filed for a continuance. You can look at the records online. It is going to trial May 23, so you are wrong about what you say. If you want to see updates, check the Denton Co. jail website. Its available for anyone to see. May 12 is the date for motions and annoucment hearing.
@ EVERYONE: Whether profit was obtained from this book or not, the “bottom line” is still intensly obvious…. The adult mentally ill NEED extended services ALL around the world!! Especially in North America… Because we have the means/resources to do so (therefore, there are absolutely NO excuses in my opinion)… However choose not to excersise these means… ??? WTF!?! O_o We need to cease resorting to complaining about this issue and start doing something to assist in “the big fix”… For too many years the mentally ill have just been pushed to the gutter due to ignorance… It’s about time us “normal” ppl (an I use this term incredibly loosly, mabye even in a mocking stance) started informing ourselves more on the way these types of persons envolved in our society “tick”… This would in turn help us all understand how to help them. There are many “victims” in this case as well as MANY others). It is very unfortunate that MANY ppls mouths are quicker than their brains!!
@ Deadman: Very well said! 😉
@ Deadman: As well as a great analogy! Couldn’t have said it better myself! 🙂
@ Dude: I completely understand where you are comming from. I also resent your comment regarding the fact that whomever is in agreement with Deadmans statements are equally ignorant… Because I myself am capable of understanding both viewpoints… An am by far “ignorant”. :/ It is definately obvious that ANY fore-drawn conclusion in this case is premature… An therefore, pretty much ONLY a matter of opinion based on un-factual evidence. BTW… LOVE tha vocab mang!! 😉 <3
@ Rudy: I am SO incredibly sorry for your great loss!! (((((HUGS))))) I too know what it's like to loose a great friend! The pain never goes away…. It just mutates as time goes by. <3 <3
@ Mr.Bojangles: CUMMON MAAAAAN!! This is the ignorance that everyone is talking about!! Do you honestly believe that this is the answer!!? An eye for an eye does not eliminate the underlining issue here…. Although I understand what it's like to mix the cognitive with…
@ Mr.Bojangles cont’d: human emotion…. The results, more often than not, are catastrophic!!
@ Everyone: I find it truly astonishing that certian ppl are glorifying Richard’s race as well as sexual orientation! 😮 What impact do these facts have on this case?? He was a human being ffs!
Haha funny I’m not fun to chat with Ummm ok you’ve not even conversed with me! And how are chats such as these suppose to be fun I don’t see anything “FUN” about the chat of a murder.. I am me and all of your petty opinions don’t matter however I have met a lot of people on here that think other wise anyone else who wants to know me if you are electronically up to date if you have an iPhone,blackberry,or Android my live profile pin is LPB5FEOS… And Rudy your already on my Facebook happy belated birthday!!!
I watched the re-run on the first 48 regarding this story. I definitely feel for the Hernandez family and for the mother of Richard who never got to see justice prevail. I don’t have anything bad to say about anyone’s opinions because they are opinions everyone has clearly developed their own emotion for this case and trial. However Miss Maria I do know her and have Hung out with her and I must say she’s not bad like you all think she is one of the coolest,funniest,and most beautiful girls I have met. She has a big heart she volunteers most of her nursing at a homeless shelter and she helped in the tragic damage of Joplin She’s just very strong in her feelings and opinions. Maybe she feels so strong on this case because a lot of her guy friends are a part of the gay community and she loves them all to death. Don’t judge anyone by a post its just opinions and when you jump all over her she is not a girl who will stand by and just be jumped on. God Bless both of the families involved and everyone on the post have a good evening!!! 🙂
Awwww thanks Nessa 🙂 we will have to do Oasis again maybe Rudy will go!! Or black Finn
FOr all of you who think you know Seth you don’t. I was one of his closest friends in highschool. I have been reading all of these articles about him and the murder. Yes, it is a tragic thing for the family who lost a son. However Seth was not always this crazy violent person everyone is making him out to be. His dad and this girlfriend (who only knows what the dad has told her) gave up on Seth a longtime ago. Dad was selfish and only thought about his needs when were in hs. Not Seth and his well being. His dad had a drinking problem.
Seth was a caring, empathetic friend. He loved life, wanted to join the Army after hs. He was in ROTC. If you were bummed out about something he was the person to make you laugh and cheer you up again. I blame his dad for giving up on him.
Schizophrenia is a brain disorder, yes it is mental illness, but it is not caused by the environment. The brain structure of a schizophrenic is structurally quite different from a normal brain. Brain scans show this to be true. It is little wonder that their perceptions are different from so called normal people. Maybe Seth’s envoronment wasn’t perfect, but blaming it on his father is not fair when it is a genetic anamoly.
I have been reading everyones comments and I just needed to let everyone know my opinion…I knew Seth back in 2001-2002. The first time I met him he came off as being very shy and quiet. He was artistic, creative, soft spoken. He even wove me a flower headband as a way to break the ice and speak to me. I didn’t grow up with him, so this was when I was first able to form my opinion of him. He was doing drugs, and was hanging around with the wrong people, but I was trying to help him get out of that life and he wanted to get out as well!!! For a while he was great! He stayed clean and was making plans to move out of state with me. He helped me when no one else was there for me. He became very protective of me. He was gentle and kind!!! He and I spent day and night together as friends for months. I even went to his fathers house a few times. I knew him to be a sweet and gentle soul who had alot of “demons” to deal with. I didn’t know about his mental illness history but by spending the time I had with him, I had already come to the conclusion that there was something “off”. He seemed lost and in desperate need for a stable person in his life. He didn’t have a permanent home, and his father would only let him stay there for short periods at a time but it was ALWAYS clear he didn’t want Seth in his home. Seth didn’t end up moving with me because he started using again. I had a “no tolerance” rule, and so I had to leave without him. When I told him he had to stay until he got clean, it broke my heart and I could tell his broke a little too. We were supposed to keep in touch and when he pulled himself together he was going to move up with me. I never heard from him again. I would think about him from time to time as the years went by and always hoped he had found peace in his soul. He touched my heart and I will never forget him. Unfortunately, I saw him on “First 48” and my heart was in my throat!!! I truly cannot believe he could do something so brutal! I hope he is innocent but it pains me to think he very easily could have “snapped” which resulted in this tragedy. My heart goes out to the victims family and friends. My heart also goes out the the sweet and gentle young man I knew as Seth Winder. As for this book…I have no doubt this was intended to be a way for his father and GF to benefit from. They are imposters trying to make us all believe they actually cared for Seth! The F***ing facts aren’t even correct! I just hope that when all is said and done, the victims family gets peace and Seth gets the help he so needed for so long!