Bar owners face fine, but should have no trouble getting license problem resolved, TABC spokeswoman says
The Dallas Eagle was shut down during its grand reopening on Friday night, July 10 because the owners of the gay leather bar hadn’t completed a change of address on their liquor license, a spokeswoman for the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission said Monday, July 13.
The owners of the Eagle issued a press release late Monday taking responsibility for the shutdown and saying it was a result of misinformation they received from an agent they hired to expedite the process of updating their liquor license. The owners also accused an unnamed competitor in the gay bar industry of tipping off authorities. To read the full press release, go here.
The Dallas Eagle recently moved across a parking lot from its old address at 2515 Inwood Road, #107, to its new location at 5740 Maple Ave.
"Basically they were in the process of applying for a change of address, and it had not made it through the process," TABC spokeswoman Carolyn Beck said. "They were doing what they were supposed to be doing, but then they jumped the gun."
Beck said both TABC and the Dallas Police Department received anonymous tips last week informing them that the Eagle was "selling alcohol away from their licensed premises."
TABC agents and DPD officers responded separately but at about the same time to the anonymous tip on Friday night, according to Beck. She said TABC agents initially left the scene after it was decided that DPD would take the lead in the investigation. However, TABC agents later returned to assist DPD with seizing and disposing of alcohol.
"Our agents were not wearing ninja masks, and we did not make any arrests," Beck said, seeking to dispel rumors about TABC’s involvement. "Our agents did not make any arrests, and to our knowledge … there weren’t any underage drinking violations or undercover minors. The issue at that location was that they were selling alcohol without a permit for that location."
Beck added that it’s possible DPD officers wore masks or made arrests.
DPD spokesman Kevin Janse said Monday afternoon that TABC agents shut down the bar and that the police department was there only as a "support element." Janse said DPD doesn’t have the authority to shut down bars for liquor law violations.
Janse added that there may have been one arrest for public intoxication, but he said he was unsure whether it was made by DPD or TABC.
DPD vice unit officers sometimes wear masks to protect their identities, Janse said, but he was unsure whether they did so in this instance.
When told that some are comparing the Dallas Eagle incident to a widely publicized recent raid on the Rainbow Lounge in Fort Worth, Janse said: "That’s kind of sad if they think, ‘Hey, we’re going to get free ride for a while because of what happened in Fort Worth.’ …
"We still have to follow up on complaints," he said. "We do it all the time. Our vice guys, that’s what they do."
Asked whether the change of address violation could have been dealt with in some other fashion, Beck said, "I can’t answer that question."
But she added that she thinks it’s "very unfortunate" that there’s a perception in the LGBT community that TABC is selectively targeting gay bars for enforcement operations.
Beck said she couldn’t comment directly on the Rainbow Lounge raid, because it’s still under investigation. However, she said incidents like the one at Dallas Eagle are common and generally don’t receive media coverage.
"We’re out there doing this same kind of thing at other locations, and people just aren’t talking about it and aren’t hearing about it," she said.
Beck also said she doubts the Dallas Eagle incident will result in any follow-up investigation by TABC.
"I don’t think we’ve seen anything that makes us think that that would be appropriate or necessary, and I don’t know that I’ve heard any allegations from anybody who was actually there that would make us believe that there’s anything to investigate," she said.
"But for the fact that they were both gay bars, I’m not sure there’s anything that these two incidents have in common, but tell me if I’m missing something."
Beck said TABC representatives have already discussed the situation with the owners of the Eagle. She said the owners would be fined for selling alcohol away from the licensed premises. But she added that the violation shouldn’t affect their ability to get a new license with a new address.
"We will be working with them to get that change of address completed as quickly as possible so that they will have a permit at that location and can operate there," Beck said.
E-mail wright@dallasvoice.com
Ok, in my conversation with TABC Lt. Gladden today, he pretty much told me the same story as printed here, with the exception that there was a message on his recorder today that said “Ya’ll need to leave the Eagle alone and take care of those bars on Cedar Springs but we all know they are paying you off.” Like I said in another post on this site, just because your favorite watering hole got busted, doesn’t mean we should try to cause trouble for all the gay clubs. We are all in the same boat, hopefully trying to accomplish the same goals, equality for everyone. I was also told by Lt. Gladden that they would probably be releasing their own press release to Dallas Voice and that the Eagle told them they were going to release a press release basically saying that they screwed up.
Ok, in my conversation with TABC Lt. Gladden today, he pretty much told me the same story as printed here, with the exception that there was a message on his recorder today that said “Ya’ll need to leave the Eagle alone and take care of those bars on Cedar Springs but we all know they are paying you off.” Like I said in another post on this site, just because your favorite watering hole got busted, doesn’t mean we should try to cause trouble for all the gay clubs. We are all in the same boat, hopefully trying to accomplish the same goals, equality for everyone. I was also told by Lt. Gladden that they would probably be releasing their own press release to Dallas Voice and that the Eagle told them they were going to release a press release basically saying that they screwed up.
Obviously from thechaserblog.com and the Dallas Voice blog, the police WERE wearing ninja masks.
Ok, Glen and JD, just to make sure you keep yourselves out of trouble, have you sent in your application for a dance hall license? It takes about 30 to 60 days for that to process. If you do not have one, and you have any kind of dancing or other entertainment, you can be fined by the Dallas Police and then your license request will be denied and you will never be able to have dancing or entertainment and can be fined every time the vice comes in and sees dancing or entertainment. You know someone will call and report you if you do not have it, so do it.
No RAID.
No Stonewall 2009
Put away your makers!
PREDICTION:
Ninja is the top selling costume at Oak Lawn Halloween Block. Order early.
PREDICTION:
Ninja is the top selling costume at Oak Lawn Halloween Block Party. Order early.
Sammy,
It seems that the “mask wearer” was a Dallas Police officer. It seehs this person was an undercover agent that needed to keep his/her identity a secret for future undercover stings.
I would suppose (my speculation) that the person was sent in to see if they could buy alcohol. The person purchased a drink, knowing that the Eagle didn’t have a proper license. This person then went out and told his/her crew that he/she had been able to purchase a alcoholic drink. The police DPD and TABC then went in to enforce the law.
The Dallas Eagle was out of compliance and therefore should have to suffer the consequences of their decision to break the law. It is my hope that they will understand a certain anger and frustration within the community.
I also hope that the TABC (and police organizations that they work with) will also understand that their tactics are causing a certain amount of fear and frustration in a community that has suffered so much from people in power.
We can only hope that these situations will continue to create better communication between all parties and someday soon the gay community will not have to wonder with every event if there was some sort of persecution involved. They have a right to believe that is going to happen, because it happens every day. We can hope that those in power politicians, and policing organizations will understand the pain that we have felt from the past and the anger that results.
This event was a good exercise in how the public and our servants (police and politicians) should work together to find answers. The public has a right to answers and the police have a right to enforce the law. When all has been said and done I think both sides have completed their work. And thanks to the fourth branch of the government (the press – represented by the Dallas Voice, and in this situation Tammye Nash) for their wonderful work in bringing these two sides together and serving as our conduit of communication.
Oh look there is Brian,
Wink and Kiss Darling
Marlin, glad you understand the situation now, and aren’t throwing TABC under the bus. As I said before and you pointed out also, centuries of discrimination against us has made it easy for us to jump to the conclusion that some kind of discrimination or oppression is taking place, but this should be a good lesson that we have to remain level headed and not accuse anyone of anything until we are absolutely sure we are correct. Keep changing the world one person at a time. Peace dude.
Carl,
I don’t ever think I threw TABC under the bus. I still think, and am in direct communication with them about this, that there is something almost terroristic about their application of the law. Just because a law is in place doesn’t mean that it has to be enforced in a way that is destructive to people and their lives.
While I believe that the situation at the Eagle is bad, I don’t exonerate TABC from their oppression of people– and I mean all people. Their enforcement of the public intoxication law is legal but not fair.
I have personally asked their spokesperson for information on how a person is supposed to even feel safe to go out and drink, when they can be arrested for supposed public intoxication. They can actually arrest people only on an officers belief that you are intoxicated. It doesn’t matter if you are sitting around letting the buzz go down. It doesn’t matter if you have a designated driver. It doesn’t matter if you have already called a cab. All that matters is that the police person says I think you are intoxicated, you are under arrest.
I think this is not only wrong, but criminal on the part of the TABC. While I have been assured by officers, that this could never happen, the reality is all the reports we have are of people who are publicly intoxicated and there is no consideration of the reality if they are about to get behind the wheel of a car (or other vehicle) and drive.
In this particular case I still believe that they should have found another way to enforce this. The Eagle was open a couple of nights before this. But they wait until the height of the celebration, when even another law enforcement officer had been there, and then step in and lower the boom. This is not good practice. There was a better way to approach this situation. Why not drop in on a week night when things were quieter and talk to the owners? Why not ask them to simply shut down until they get their papers in order? Why make this into a terroristic action upon a community that already lives in fear, many of them living closeted, and so now living with another possibility of being outed?
So TABC does have some things to answer for. I think as our servants we have a right and duty to ask. It is my hope that out of all of this the TABC will be more thoughtful in the application of public intoxication law.
You guys..and gals of Texas.
I have been reading all of your comments about this case because it affects both the straight and gay community. I’m an Ohioan and I think Ohio has been a state longer than Texas.(correct me if I am wrong.)
I visited there once and was very impressed. You live in a great state! We have NO such government TABC here in Ohio. Bars just hire bouncers and if things get out of hand then the city police are called. And..our state is functioning just fine..well..as fine as states are today… THAT IS THE WHOLE THING!!! If Texas is feeling the pinch of this crazy economy then get rid of the TABC!!! TABC is a big waste of taxpayers money.
Contact your state reps!!! Seriously..you can live without the TABC..
Jim
Ok, so much for remaining level headed. Looks like paranoia prevails or someone is just looking for a cause. I also have been in conact with TABC, speaking to the same officer that Dallas Eagle owners did. They went on Friday night and not the days before, because the report given to them was about Friday night and not the days before. It’s pretty simpl. I guess some people have a hard time in life and an unhappy life due to their own making. Some people aways think someone is out to get them. I’m done with this subject. Adios.
Marlin, if you have an issue with the way the public intoxication law is written, take it up with the state legislature. The cops enforce the law as it written. Period. What about that is hard to understand? Why is it that people see conspiracies every where? Carl is right…”some people always think someone is out to get them.”
Carl,
I never made it personal about you, why did you have to do that about me, and supposedly “analyze” my reasons.
You said “I guess some people have a hard time in life and an unhappy life due to their own making. Some people aways think someone is out to get them.”
I am not sure who that was “aimed” at but it is sad that you felt the need to try to win an argument by making personal statements about someone you don’t know. I will look over my statements in the last day, but I don’t think I did that toward you or anyone else.
Feel free to leave the discussion if you wish, but don’t leave it by making personal slams against people you don’t know and analyzing people’s motivations when you might not understand at all where they are coming from.
And if this is your farewell then have a good one on other discussions.
Later
FYI, Carl. Glen Price has not been associated with the Dallas Eagle in several months. The co-owners are J.D. Buchert and David Webster.
Marlin, ok, you brought me back. I tried to be supportive of you, if you will review all of the post I have made here and specifically the ones addressed to you. But you make it difficult. I still love you my gay brother, and want you to have a beautiful life. But you do make it seem like you are paraniod or looking for a cause, to me. I probably overstepped the boundaries, I often do, a big mouth sometimes. Open mouth, insert foot. I don’t know which is harder, coming openly out at 17 years old back in 1973 and fighting the fight all these years, or staying in the closet all the years you did and now seem to be trying to find your place in the gay community. Go back and read all your post in the last few days, and you will see, you gave a lot of info for someone to try to analyze you with, if it is a natural inclination, like for me. Ok. Are we cool? But not every thing has to be because the world hate queers. Sometimes people are just doing their job, even if THEY don’t agree with it, they still have to do it or be unemployed. OK?
@Jim W, just going by what the Dallas Voice put out there with the photo they posted of Glen and JD. Makes no difference to me who is the owner, I’m willing to help whoever needs it, if they need it. But thanks for the info.
Man, this is attack Marlin night I see. Pro-Police — I have and do continue to advocate for change in these laws, but the enforcement is also just as important.
My father was a police officer, he talked many times about selective enforcement. All rules are selectively enforced by officers (city, county, state, federal). They select when and how they want to enforce those laws. A good officer will look at a situation and make a judgment call about the situation and the moment.
My father used the example of a farmer running a red light at three in the morning. Do you stop him and give him a ticket. He said usually no. You realized that while yes the man broke the law, it was three in the morning, the farmer was probably on his way to milk the cows and probably wasn’t going to hurt anyone.
These officers choose how and when to enforce these laws. If they were going to be fair, every time they go to a bar they should test (with a breathalyzer) every patron there. They should not randomly go through and choose who to “catch” at being PI. They should then analyze the situation and see if the person has a way home. Public Intoxication does not mean you are going to drive a car.
Imagine if we got speeding tickets like that. Oh well I think you are speeding. And I think it was ten miles over the limit. Here is your ticket. Nope, when we get a speeding ticket it is measured and can be verified. There is not officer discretion.
That is what I am seeing a conspiracy about. Even in the situation about the Dallas Eagle. Here was a community that was already in an uproar about possible attacks on their community. The people selling alcohol had moved, but we are talking about having a wrong address, like remembering to change the address on your driver’s license when you move. Should Eagle have done better? YES! But DPD and TABC could also have used a little discretion and not chosen that night to put the law into effect.
I am so glad that officers don’t enforce the law exactly as it is written 100% of the time. There are very few of us that would survive one day without getting a ticket or worse. Nope good police people know when and how to enforce the law.
Once again I am not attacking you, but talking about policy, but if you feel the need to attack me as a person — go for it — it doesn’t change who I am — I think I was taught as child something along the lines of sticks and stones. LOL.
Later
Marlin states “But DPD and TABC could also have used a little discretion and not chosen that night to put the law into effect.” TABC states “On July 10, 2009, the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission (TABC) licensing division in Austin Headquarters received an anonymous complaint that Dallas Eagle (Permit #MB254723) had changed locations without transferring their permit. The Dallas Eagle permit is issued for 2515 Inwood Road, Dallas, Texas. The complaint alleged that they were having a “grand opening†at 5740 Maple in Dallas.TABC licenses and permits are specific to certain owners and specific locations. The Dallas Eagle had applied for a change of address and change of officer on July 7, 2009, but the application processing was not complete, and the Dallas Eagle did not have a permit for the new location. On July 10, at approximately 9:50pm, upon arriving at 5740 Maple to investigate the complaint, TABC agents learned that the Dallas Police Department had also received a complaint and were planning to work the location in an undercover capacity. TABC agents left the location and returned later to seize the alcoholic beverages being sold.” Dallas Eagle states “We would also like to extend our sincere apologies to the employees at TABC and the Dallas Police Department for the adverse press they have had to endure for simply doing their duty.” Ok Marlin, TABC and DPD were doing nothing but their job, and following up on a complaint. Like if you call the police and say your neighbor is making too much noise and you can’t sleep. The police need to get there and answer the complaint that night, not tomorrow while you are at work. They have a duty to investigate the complaint when it is made, on the night it is made. Got it?
Perhaps it was the “activists” that complained to the TABC about the Eagle. It could happen. Based on what I have read in the last few days it makes perfect sense.
One of the (potentially) best things about a conversation (Blog) is that we can conclude it and move on.
People over-reacted about The Eagle, but they had good intentions. Somehow, as a community, we need to figure out when it’s time to take a deep breath and try to understand and when it is time to riot or claim oppression. There is plenty of room between those two options. The Eagle mess was a non-starter. Sloppy management, at best.
Soon, we’ll know enough about the Rainbow Lounge to understand if that was an attack on gay people or an inspection that went bad. Don’t attack that thought. That is where we are right now. Hopefully, The Voice and others will continue to provide us accurate information as it becomes available.
All of this pales in comparison to what we should be talking about – how are we going to end the hatred of gay people? It shows up in so many ways and we need to fight that.
It isn’t some bad cops or a bad agency (TABC) – it’s us. We need to stand up and let people know there is nothing wrong with us. We need to be proud, not one day a year, but all 365.
Carl,
We were never “enemies.” I am saying I am, at least on my terms, fighting for “justice.” This issue, TABC and how they choose to enforce the law, is not just a GLBTQ issue. It is an issue about our freedom as a society.
Do I think that TABC hates gays? Nope. Do I believe that they may have some officers that hate gays? Yep. Do I believe homophobia is rampant in the straight community. YES! (But maybe that is jut my experience.) I know some wonderful straight people — two that were with me at the rally last night.
What I do believe is that the TABC is not thinking about the right methods for enforcing the laws. As I said to pro-police it is a time and place.
I am a school teacher. I have to enforce rules all the time. But I also know that there is a time and place. If a student of mine is in an emotional crisis and cursing at me — I don’t enforce the don’t curse at teacher rule, because I understand that the student is not in control of themselves. On the other hand, later in the same day when I tell a student something and he/she turns to me and says “F.U.” I will enforce the rule and call a police officer and have a ticket written.
The TABC and DPD did nothing wrong in enforcing the law at the Eagle. But that doesn’t mean they did everything right. I think that is the distinguishing point we have to make. We all have to be able to look at ourselves at the end of the day and say maybe I made a mistake.
I spent twenty years as a pulpit minister. In those twenty years I can’t count the number of times I backtracked on my own lessons as I grew and changed as a person. I can’t tell you how many times I have had to go back to a student, as a teacher, and apologize because I didn’t understand the situation. I don’t mind doing that, cause I know that I am not perfect, and that I have to make allowances for the other person.
Rules are there. But they have to be applied in the time and place. They have to be applied with wisdom. Maybe the owners of the Eagle were not very wise (and they and our community will learn from that), but I can’t say that the officers acted in the most auspicious manner either.
There could have been other ways to handle this that would not have resulted in this kind of uproar and led to the same situation (closing of the bar).
And we are still brothers in the gay brotherhood. I have a tough skin. I don’t know who made the right choice about coming out. I probably made the worse one, but it was based on my own misconceptions about myself and the world. But please don’t think that you can analyze me, or anyone based on the writings here or anywhere. Like one great philosopher said, you can’t step in the same river twice. Who and what I am is changing moment to moment.
I am not seeking a cause, I have always been involved in causes. LOL.
Later —
I have been a regular customer of the Dallas Eagle for many years. It’s really the only bar in Dallas that feel like I fit in with, due to the more masculine ambience compared with most of the other gay bars in town. I consider myself a personal friend of J.D. and David, as well as several other staff members. Having said that, they simply screwed up on the liquor license change of location. Considering all the things you hear over the years about competitors attempting to sabotage each other’s business, you’d think they wouldn’t have dared take a chance on opening without the proper permit paperwork. I don’t know if they decided to gamble that nothing would happen because they were just across the parking lot or what was going on. I know that they had informally announced the grand opening to a lot of us several weeks ago and according to the TABC, the change of location paperwork wasn’t received until July 7th. I knew about the Grand Opening date back in June. I was there for the VIP party and was there both times TABC and DPD were there. From my perspective, everything was handled in a professional and courteous manner.
Here is what I would like to know. How would somebody outside Eagle management have access to the information about the change in location permit not yet being issued? TABC and DPD would never have been there on Friday night were it not for the anonymous complaint. I’m wondering if there is an online database of permit records and addresses or if somebody within the Eagle world opened his mouth to the wrong person.
@Jim W. to answer your question, yes there is a database that anyone can access so it would not be difficult to find out if the license had been changed to a new location. Also, all one has to do, if they don’t have internet access, is call the local TABC office and ask if the property in question had a license issued to it. It’s all public information. Also, if the complaintant left a name, TABC has to give that to the bar the complaint is made against if they ask for it, but more than likely, it was made anonomously, which it can be and usually is for obvious reasons. Ok?
@ Marlin, I always tell people that I am a continuing work in progress and my thoughts and opinions are subject to change as I continue to grow, hopefully.
Carl,
You sound like a lawyer building a case for the TABC and DPD. “They have a duty to investigate the complaint when it is made, on the night it is made. Got it?” Go for it. There is a great difference between a noise disturbance and some drinks being sold on a license that doesn’t have the right address. We are not in disagreement that the Eagle was breaking the law.
I know we disagree on how the law was enforced, and I know you are very pro-TABC and pro-enforcement. I am glad you are. We just have a to agree that our philosophies about enforcement are very different. A dead person and a smoking gun isn’t always first-degree murder.
Later,
For CRYING OUT LOUD Marlin – This was NOT a RAID or attack on Gay people. Read what the Owners said – they screwed up.
You can’t make this part of a Stonewall-2009 fantasy – you just can’t.
Carl has been helpful. Others have shared their insights – why keep trying to make this into something that it isn’t? Use your time to come up with a Plan for Equality. Use your experience and your passion, too.
Instead of anger, try to create a solution. Please. We all need to figure out how we will become equal, not angry or victimized. Let’s do that NOW.
I have read all of the comments. I take a little from each person who comments. I lived in San Francisco for 11 years and was there for many protests and other activist things. I have always sided on the idea that these things eventually blow over and yet it changes people’s opinions because of awareness and activism. It’s important to state your opinion and stand your ground. It’s OK to disagree about the strategy going forward, but please don’t insult each other.
I think we still have a cultural problem here in Dallas and Texas for that matter. But I also think it’s not only here but even in places like San Francisco. Sexuality is an innate thing, and to think that we are going to win anybody over is naive. We are a minority group, but we have a human right to love whomever we choose, so long as it does not contravene laws.
My gut instinct is that law-enforcement in Texas whether it is TABC or police is that these people still are of a mindset to pick on gays. It’s changed a whole lot from 30 years ago, but I think it’s still there. I’m not talking about TABC going into the Eagle on Friday night, I’m talking about general attitude among the people at large.
We just have to keep working at it. We have to show by example that we are and are decent citizens of our world, state and city. I know that sounds simplistic, but it does work.
I just seems that there could have been a smoother way of handling the situation. If they had this information earlier in the week, why did they wait until when the bar would normally be at the busiest time of the evening. No doubt the DPD and the TABC were doing their job, and would could fault them for that. It’s unfortunate that they seemed to have picked the most damaging time to do this. After all, from the minute they were selling alcohol, the law was being broken and since the tips had been made prior to that, they were allowed to break the law for hours before they stepped in. With that in mind, I really think it’s ironic that they should both appear at the same time if they were, as it was stated, there seperately.
Brian, said, “For CRYING OUT LOUD Marlin – This was NOT a RAID or attack on Gay people. Read what the Owners said – they screwed up.”
Brian, I don’t know where you get that I am using the word raid, or stonewall. I know these are trigger words for you. As I have explained my position here, and and BTW also to TABC and FWPD, and soon probably DPD and welll as already to my state representtives, is that while the law may be being enforced correctly, as it seems that it was in the case at the Eagle, it doesn’t mean that it was correct.
I am not making this a gay issue, I am claiming this is a citizens issue. Police have the right and duty to enforce the law. But, as I have already said, they themselves enforce the law sporadically. They choose when and how to enforce it all the time. They made a choice to enforce the law at the Eagle. Did they have a right? YES. Was it a wise thing to do? NO. That is where the discussion is for me.
I would be saying this were it a straight bar situation. As I have said, I have, because of this incident begun to research the issue and found that TABC has a reputation for enforcing the law in ways that don’t make sense. Arresting people for PI when they are in the hotel where they are staying and going to go upstairs and sleep it off. Arresting people for PI who have designated drivers. Arresting people for PI who could be getting a cab to go home. Are they within the law? YES. Is it right? NO!
A person who is inebriated, for the most part, is not a danger to others until they either a)wander out on the street in front of traffic, or b) get behind a wheel and begin to drive. As a citizen (gay or straight) I think I have the right and duty to bring this issue before people and state that I believe this is wrong enforcement.
I know you have some kind of issue with the whole gay rights thing. That is fine. Go for it. I don’t know why you feel the way you do. It doesn’t matter to me. You have as much right to fight against my right to fight for justice as anyone else. That is the beauty and power of democracy.
I am also sorry that you seem to feel, in my opinion, uncomfortable with anger. Anger is a beautiful emotion, just like love. It has the power to change the world. Used in the right way it can and has revolutionized the world over and over again. If you don’t want to get angry then don’t. If you want to work quietly to make changes then do. But don’t disdain other’s real feelings and actions. The world is always swirling into chaos. Enjoy the chaos and keep your corner safe and sound.
Later,
Marlin,
If you like ANGER, then get angry at RELIGION. That institution has made us gay people WRONG. Religion is the single cause of ALL gay suffering and discrimination. Channel your anger at them.
I agree about some of the TABC laws – they’re archaic, change them.
Brian,
You are just darling. So now you get to choose what other people get to be angry about? You get to set the agenda? Wow, now I call that power.
I have and continue to fight religious bigotry — sexism, homophobia, heterosexism, racsim. As I have stated elsewhere on one of the multiple posts, I have settled on atheism as the best basis doctrine. I have though preached sermons from pulpits about religious homophobia. I have stood in front of churches protesting religious homophobia. I have written letters to the editor decrying religious homophobia.
I also, have begun to work to change TABC laws. Sadly our legislature only meets every other year, and this will probably be the last thing on their agenda, along with gay rights legislation which once again failed this year, unless there is someway for them to find to restrict people’s freedoms some more. Between now and change though I can attempt to educate both the public and the TABC and law enforcement agencies that assist them about the silliness of enforcing certain of these laws, or at least cause them to think, might there be a better way, time to enforce this particular law.
We are all fighting for the same thing. We are looking for ways to make our world better. The balance between individual freedoms and corporate safety will always be debated. But the fight shall continue in the streets, in the courts, in the legislature, on the Internet. In the end, we won’t find perfection, but hopefully we can all find ways to respect and applaud each other in our efforts to find a better, if not perfect world.
Marlin,
I understand your comment, but I said “religion” not “religious bigotry” or “religious homophobia.” There is no need to parse. Religion makes gay WRONG. This leads to bigotry, hatred, homophobia and if you’re Matthew Shepherd – death.
It is the institution of Religion that must be fought and put out of business. As an Atheist, I am certain you would agree that if the World woke up tomorrow without religion, we wouldn’t invent it.
For 2,000 years we have let RELIGION define us. I agree with Travis who has suggested that we rise up and force that institution to change or go bankrupt.
What I understood from what Travis was preaching (pun intended) is that in 2009 40% of Americans don’t believe in religion and in a few decades the “majority” will have gotten over or rejected religion. At that point we (gays) can probably win votes about us, not before. This argument makes sense to me.
I used to belong to the Cathedral of Hope and I felt “welcome.” I learned later that later didn’t change the Christian doctrine that I was a sinner, defective and an abomination. So, I took my money and my prayers – and left. I cannot belong to a church or congregation that makes me wrong. Once I understood this, I realized that it is really ONLY religion that has EVER made gay WRONG. I’d like that to end. I am NOT WRONG.
So, as you’ve suggested “we’re all fighting the same thing” doesn’t seem to be true. We should all be fighting religion. They’re going out of business anyway, so why not rescue the identity and worth of homosexuals NOW, before they’re gone.
I am not wrong Marlin, neither are you. This should be our collective message. We can win that one.
So, sign me up Travis. Marlin, are you in?
Well I must say JD is a gay man I can stand behind! He admitted that his ducks were not all in a row and that there was fault on the clubs part in this matter. Wow I honestly can say I have rarely if ever experienced that in the gay community. The standard is to jump and shout out the unfair treatment of our community of which I am absolutely sick of. I have decided that there is no reason to go to the Gay Pride Parade this year as it stands for a bunch of whining spoiled faggots who think they deserve Special Treatment and not the Equal Treatment they claim the community so desperately deserves and wants. The compassion level in the gay community is also lacking for not only the community but as well outside our community. Everyone deserves love and everyone deserves the right to make their mistakes made whole but the community at large has become nothing more than a mask of the very thing they claim to fight against. Grow up people! You want Equal Rights then live by the law and own your failures. You want the right to get married then understand Divorce comes with that and Yes you will divide the spoils just like a straight couple would. I’m disgusted with my gay community. I still believe it can change and I hope it will. Stop waiting for the world to change. We need to change!
Marlin, James Stone and everyone else making a big deal out of this incident. This is not a gay harrassment issue! Get over it and accept that the TABC and DPD investigated, NOT RAIDED, the Dallas Eagle based on a complaint about the move to a new location without a new liquor permit. The owners of Dallas Eagle have admitted fault and have admitted that the TABC and DPD were only doing their jobs and apologized to them for our, yes the gay community, being misinformed and our adverse press they are enduring for doing their job! They additionally stated that they were not harrassed or threatened and that TABC and DPD were polite and organized. Unfortunately, TABC and DPD received the complaint that Friday and responded to it that day. They didn’t have knowledge of this complaint prior on Wednesday or Thursday or I am sure they would have investigated the complaint then. So, for those of you whining about having your night ruined on Grand Opening night…oh well that’s the way it went down so stop blaming the cops because it is the Dallas Eagle’s fault for ruining your night! Also, it’d been stated that TABC is constantly harrassing the Dallas Eagle. Give us some dates becuase after speaking to Dallas Eagle Staff, they state that TABC has not been harrassing them and that they only come in a few times a year for a routine inspection! Also, TABC is a state police agency. They are state police officers like Troopers with DPS and Game Wardens and they have full peace officer powers. You also state TABC stays away from the Cedar Springs gay bars…NOT TRUE…they routinely are inspecting these bars as I have seen them there as recent as last week. Check with those bars and get your facts straight before you open your big mouth! Again, everyone was so quick to jump the bandwagon of discrimination and harrassment and all you did was give the gay community a black eye for being a bunch of drama queens!!!
James Stone…by the way, every state in the nation has a State Government ABC or Liquor Control Board to include your great state of Ohio. They may not have been visible that one day you were out at the gay bars but Ohio has an active ABC agency. Things are bigger in Texas so this great state has a large number of ABC agents and they are one of the most visible ABC agencies in the nation enforcing and regulating the alcohol industry. Research things before you try and slam TABC.
Before you canonize Mr Buchert into sainthood, or throw money at his feet to help in his blunder, I must say I have known of Mr Buchert for many years and to me he is nothing but another P.T. Barnum looking at everyone who walks in the door as his next sucker.
Yes he accepted responsibility for the error in the licensing process, therefore it is my opinion that Mr. Buchert knew the papers were not in order but tried to cover over this impeding fact due to the numerous times he had proclaimed an opening date only to have to delay due to some other licensing or production schedule issue. Therefore, in order to save face he knowingly put his employees and patrons at risk and unfortunately got caught red handed.
So please before you set Mr. Buchert on a pedestal let us focus where it should be, on the owner(s) of the business. Any business owner should have had a meeting with all his people, and double checked all the permits before proceeding to an opening celebration. But when you are running to be the glorious savior of the Dallas Eagle, I guess you can forget all the little things. It’s just to bad for us they got caught.
Tony B, stated, “Marlin, James Stone and everyone else making a big deal out of this incident. This is not a gay harrassment issue! Get over it and accept that the TABC and DPD investigated, NOT RAIDED, the Dallas Eagle based on a complaint about the move to a new location without a new liquor permit.”
Tony, I am not sure what you are talking about. I think everyone has accepted that a) This was not gay harrassment, b)This was not a raid.
For some reason you don’t agree with my issued with the TABC and DPD. And that is fine. But I have a right, as a citizen, of this state, and nation to voice my feelings, emotions, and understanding.
I think everyone agrees that the Dallas Eagle made some mistakes. They should have to answer for that to the authorities and to the community.
So I don’t quite get what your diatribe is about. If you read the whole converstaion, which has been ongoing for about three days. I have accepted that there was a law broken. I don’t agree with the way it was enforced. As I have said, Did the TABC and DPD have the right to do what they did? YES. Do I agree with the way they did it? NO.
Later,
So, did anyone catch the All-Star Game last night?
Lot of hot guys!
Gary K, Asked” So, did anyone catch the ALL-Star Game last night?”
So which stars were playing? Kenau Reeves, Brad Pitt?
How many touchdowns did they make?
Or is how fast did they move the puck down the ice?
LOL.
Later,
@ Brian,
RAID is defined as a “search without warning, to make a sudden surprise attack on.”
The TABC officers left and waited for the DPD’s “large scale enforcement operation” to arrive. There was an “initial investigation” conducted by the DPD’s Vice Unit, undercover. The “enforcement operation” consisted of members of the DPD Vice Unit with at least two masked officers, backed up by patrol units “called to assist the Vice Unit”, and officers of the TABC. They came through the doors en masse, with the masked men leading the way. It was most certainly impressive and a bit disconcerting.
While they were business-like, professional, and “just doing their jobs”, I think that word RAID applies to their action that night.