Hardy Haberman left this statement as a comment on another post. But I wanted to make sure people see it. The parts I have bolded are, I think, important to keep in mind:
“I spoke with Dan who owns the leather shop at the Eagle. He said the raid was not the kind of thing that happened in Ft. Worth. He specifically said the police were pretty well mannered.
He, too is not completely filled in on the details. If I hear more I will let you know. The timing, though in my opinion is suspicious, I would never assume anything until I hear from more folks. I have gotten a steady stream of calls and emails from people who want to “do somethingâ€. Doing something would be appropriate once we know what really went on. For me, I plan to be in Ft. Worth tomorrow with a few hundred close friends. The Rainbow Lounge event was apparently much different than what happened at the Eagle, but until we have all the info, it’s just a guess.”
Thanks Tammye. Everyone needs to sit back take a deep breath and relax and give time for the FACTS to come out, as I am sure they will knowing you will dig them out. I suspect that it was just unusual timing that three DFW gay bars got their new liquor license around the same time. Yes, even a change of address is like getting a new license according to TABC rules.
I would just think it would be a good idea now for all bars, especially gay ones, to have all their ducks in a row concerning their liquor licenses, checking ID’s before serving drinks to anyone who looks underage, better security at enforcing lewd, illegal, and/or disturbing behavior as well as advising all patrons to watch their alcohol consumption. In otherwords, cover your backside!
Before reading about the Fort Worth raid, I had no idea that you could be arrested for public intoxication while in a bar! It would be good to know some other legal facts to make the LGBT better aware of liquor laws in Texas. This could be a good future article for the Dallas Voice.
I just pulled out my copy of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code. It’s quite extensive, 396 pages. Every responsible bar owner/manager should have a copy and should have made their self familiar with the rules of the State of Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code, as it tells them everything they need to know in order to keep themsleves and their customers out of trouble. Bartenders should be TABC certifed so they know the rules that will keep them out of trouble, but also the owner should require his bartenders to be certified, as it switches liability from him to his bartenders if they break the law. I pretty much know most of this code as I have read it over and over and over, so that I was sure I knew what the law was and wasn’t. Kind of boring, but necessary for me in the past. Anyone wanting to take the time to look up anything in the code can also read it online at: https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/alcoholic_beverage_code.asp
Some had called this a non-news event. Others have asked us to sit back and take a breath. I disagree with both of these statements.
For over twenty years of my adult life I remained in the closet because of fear on many fronts. Finally in my forties, I chose to come out of the closet and left my job because homosexuality would have been unacceptable. Living as an out person has only change the kinds of oppression but not its reality.
I work for a school district in the metroplex that does not have legal protection for sexual orientation. Because of this, I pondered at continuing to live in the closet but made an affirmative decision to live openly. Everyone on the staff knows I am gay. I have told students, if they ask, that I am gay. There has been some parental backlash from that, and some warnings of problems from my administration but no promises of protection. Students whose parents disapproved have been removed from my classroom.
Now, I can’t even go out into public without fear. I am sorry, but I agree with another writer, this is a form of oppression. I am not a person who drinks alcohol a great deal. I very rarely go into a bar. But when I do, I now have to worry that some police force will come in and accuse me of public intoxication. In the last three years, I can recall three times when I felt a buzz. I was not drunk. Even with the buzz, I didn’t want to risk being a danger to myself or others. So each time, I remained where I was anywhere between three and four hours, to make sure that I was “okay.†Having never been drunk I don’t know how much it would take for that to happen, but because I don’t drink I have a low tolerance and can get a buzz on one drink if the drink is strong enough.
Now, I have to worry about being “caught†in this state and having an accusation of public intoxication made against me. Parties who are already trying to find something wrong with me because of my sexual orientation could use this against me as cause for firing.
For the first time in my life I am beginning to have a sense of freedom and hope. Now suddenly I am afraid that a little incident could turn into a nightmare. Maybe there were mistakes made at the Eagle by the owners and/or staff. I don’t know yet. But, I do know that until I feel safe, I won’t be visiting any bars in the metroplex. The TABC is way out of control. The police departments that assist them should be pulling back, because, like FWPD, they are in the least accessories to the crime of oppression and harassment.
I know the police forces will claim that they are not oppressing people, but this man feels very oppressed and threatened and afraid as a citizen as well as a gay man.
Marlin Bynum
Irving, TX
Marlin, I am sorry you live in fear. Oppression is something that we in the GLBT community unfortunately continue to deal with on many levels and in reality will for quite some time. You are taking the correct steps in being open and out as it is necessary for people to see us and know our lives and loves are just like theirs before they begin to accept us. I believe fear is one of the worst emotions we have and I myself refuse to live in/with fear. My only suggestion is that you go on and live your life as you see fit as it is only yours to live. I realize that many of us in the gay community are gun shy due to the many injustices we endure on a daily basis and we need to stand up to those injustices, but I suspect that what happened at the Eagle was due to the owners/employess not doing what they needed to do rather than any discrimination. Time and investigation will tell. Until then, keep an open mind and hold your head high and proud.
I am completely dumbfounded by the “conspiracy theorist’s ” out there!
When is our community going to grow up and realize that not everything is a “soap-box” issue requiring a rally and march? Sometimes, the rules are broken, and punishment is handed down!
As to everyone who keeps asking why TABC only strikes at night? well – i don’t know about you – but most bars are only open during the evening hours – doesn;t it make sense that they would go when the place is open?
geez Dallas – get a grip…..
I’m gay and work in the industry…. New places get raided… I’m not shocked that the eagle got raided, hence me not going! I am sure that this has nothing to connect the Ft. Worth expierence with this raid. Tabc has a job to do…as long as they are respectful don’t take it out of hand!
TABC doing their job – even if not perfect, is NOT “oppression.”
A pattern of uneven code enforcement and disproportionately harsh treatment of bar patrons WOULD BE oppressive in effect, and would strongly suggest conspiracy.
If you think that there are not anti-gay attitudes among elected state government officials and that this doesn’t permeate the state agencies that state government oversees, then you may have a case of Stockholm Syndrome. Or maybe you AGREE with them, in which case you’re a bigot.
Sean, if you fart, some people are ready to march in the streets and protest.
I want to clarify. In the last sentence, of a previous post, I stated, “[T]his man feels very oppressed and threatened and afraid as a citizen.” This is not just a gay rights issue. This is a citizen’s rights issue.
Out of my concern about this issue, before this week’s events I wrote to the TABC and asked them to define public intoxication. Carolyn Beck, replied, “Public intoxication is defined in the Penal Code as being intoxicated to the extent that you may be a danger to yourself or others. Intoxication is defined as having a blood alcohol content of .08 or more OR having lost normal use of mental or physical faculties due to the introduction of alcohol or drugs.”
Look at this very carefully, They say that public intoxication is “having lost normal use of mental or physical faculties due to the introduction of alcohol or drugs.” As I stated in my previous statement, I have felt exactly that way after one drink, if the drink was strong enough. Neither time was I in a “gay bar.’ but a restaurant/bar situation.
Now I am told, even though I was wise and sat there in that state each time from three to four hours, I was actually breaking the law. In fact so much so, that had I admitted to being “affected” by the alcohol, which I did in one case to a friend, I could have been arrested. So actually it would have been smarter for me to have gotten in the car, even in the affected state and gotten home so that I was not publicly intoxicated.
I know that I am in a sense using hyperbole, but the reality is that I was committing a crime by sitting in a bar under the influence of alcohol. In my research on this “law” I have found that this is a problem for people in all kinds of situation.
In Irving there was a person arrested in a bar in a hotel in which they were staying. After they were through with the evening they were going to go back to their room and “sleep it off.” The police though legally arrested this person.
There are several cases like this. Getting in one’s car and driving under the influence is an illegal act because it does endanger other people’s lives. But being drunk, or even a bit tipsy in a bar, shouldn’t be a crime. People’s professional lives should not be endangered because, they choose to go have a few after work.
I personally have been the designated driver several times for groups of friends. Since I am not a drinker, it was not big deal. But now, I find that there isn’t even a need for that, because my friends, who were drunk, could have easily been arrested for that, even though they had planned ahead and been good citizens.
This is the kind of fear that citizens should not have to live under. We shouldn’t have to fear going to a bar on the opening night as one person in one of these threads said he chose not to do because he knew that a new bar would be hit. We should not have to have a night of celebration interrupted because the TABC finds something wrong, that could have as easily been taken care of when the bar was not in the middle of a big event. We should not have to live in fear that our lives could be ruined because of the perception of an officer of the law.
I am sorry but I feel the TABC is an agency that needs to either be reformatted in its work, or disposed of and recreated. I don’t mind them talking about licensing, if we should even license the sale of alcohol. I don’t mind them talking about the sale of alcohol to minors, but how should that affect the lives of good citizens who are just trying to enjoy themselves? According to many of the posts here, they have every right to enter our private lives, and yes even in a bar they are private lives, and at random choose people to accuse, and they don’t have to test you. All they have to do is say, I think you are impaired. Boom — you are in jail — your professional life is in ruins — you end up on the streets.
Later,
Marlin Bynum
Iriving
IF the owners of the Dallas Eagle did not have their permits in order and IF a bartender did serve a minor undercover TABC agent, then TABC had every right to close them down. This isn’t oppression, it’s the law and TABC was only doing their job.
I completely agree with what Sean had to say above! This isn’t about a gay bar being singled out in the least. It’s about a bar that wasn’t operating within the codes set by TABC, that’s it. This isn’t a platform for gay rights or lack of. Get off the soapboxes, y’all.
Our community is right to question these events and to challenge the motives of those who respond.
On the one hand, we all need to hold government, law enforcement, the judiciary, etc., accountable. Yet we must do so in a way that doesn’t alienate the very people we must enlist as allies in the ongoing struggle for equality.
On the other hand, we must encourage these young activists to channel their energy in constructive ways. We can ill-afford to douse their firebrand form of participatory democracy.
So, to the activists out there, thanks. Thanks for being unwilling to settle for the status quo; for questioning the institutional spin and insisting on the truth; and for keeping these issues at the forefront. Don’t forget that many of your elders have been here before and are eager to share their wisdom even if they don’t have the energy to endure the Texas heat at the rallies.
To the TABC and law enforcement, thanks. When you perform your duties with distinction you bring honor to your profession and you improve everyone’s quality of life.
As a native Texan, I am amazed at how easily many people on these posts take the law enforcement at face value. Law enforcement in this state is and will always have a wild west patriarichal bent to it. In other words, Texas is very much a “law and order” place.
I am in my mid-40’s, happily out for 21 plus years, HIV+ for 16 of those years and I can tell you that law enforcement always has an alterior motive and when it comes to gays there is always a “shadow agenda”.Only when we are really vocal does anything get done.
This is a bigger issue than whether the Eagle had their ducks in a row (which I am pretty sure there were some mistakes made by the owners and managment). I know first hand that TABC has harrassed the Eagle for years simply because they don’t approve of the Leather and S&M lifestyle. Their descrimination is real as is the descrimination against The Leather community in the gay community at large. And this is why I know that there was no way TABC was ever going to let this bar open and stay open regardless, paperwork or no paperwork.
Besides, I was there on Friday and the crowd was mellow, happy, and celebratory. I also find it interesting that no one has mentioned Lupe Valdez’s presence in the bar. Our sherriff was there for a long time and even gave a short speech. Interestingly, things didn’t start “going south” until after her departure.
My suggestion to everyone who is taking a “wait and see” attitude to not only remember Stonewall but also remember the 80’s when we were dropping like flies because of silence. I will never be silent again, even if mistakes are made along the way keeping the bigger picture in mind is vital. And in case I have to spell out the bigger picture here it is again – A dispraportionate focus on gay establishements or gay anything when it comes to enforcing the law. I mean really, it took Texas until 2003 to repeal the sodomy laws.
I believe that legions of my brothers and I are alive today because groups like Act-up remained vocal and pushed and would not live with the status quo.
It is time for a review of TABC and their drakonian laws and it is time for action once again. If we can’t even gather to have the occassional drink and socialize what makes anyone think that we will every be allowed to marry. It is laughable to me.
You all may think you have straight allies but just don’t listen to closely to what they whisper about you when you turn your back. The legal systems that are in place are heterocentric and I can assure you that there are not many non-gay people that will stand up for your rights, especially if it means sharing what they have.
Follow the rules and keep yourself in line at your own peril.
Silence Still Equals Death.
Looks like the TABC is targeting really dangerous locations, vs. such as below.
Can you say “Disregard for human life and dignity by the State of Texas” ?
“Teen fatally shot outside SW Houston night club
Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle
July 12, 2009, 9:51AM
A 17-year-old boy was shot and killed early this morning when he got into an argument outside a southwest Houston nightclub.
The teen arrived at the club, at 7136 Clarewood, just as it was closing at 4 a.m. Witnesses say he argued with a group of men, one of whom pulled a gun and shot the teen several times, killing him.
Police are searching for the gold four-door sedan, possibly a Chevy Impala, in which the suspects fled. Anyone with information is asked to call the Homicide Division at 713-308-3600.”
I have been an openly gay man in the Dallas community for 36 years. I have seen and experienced my share of discrimination in those years. I have done my share of activism during those years. I am proud that the work I and others of the past have done has lessened the discrimination the younger generations now have to experience. But there is still much work to be done and I encourage everyone to keep fighting for our rights and fight against discimination. But I think everyone is jumping the gun on the Eagle situation and may even be seeing discimination and oppression where there is none. I realize that Sheriff Valdez was at the opening but that does not mean that everything was ok and it was an act of discrimination. It only means that Sheriff Valdez did not do her homework and has put herself in a bad light when we are depending on her to make the gay community proud of her leadership. My brothers and sisters, please use you heads and not your emotions to address oppression and discrimination.
Thought some of you might be interested in this from the TABC code. As you can see most of these are broken regularly at bar or clubs and TABC could really be asses about it if they wanted. Do you really want to push it so that TABC could make going to a bar or club not even worth while?
Alcoholic Beverage Code
Other Criminal Provisions
Lewd, Immoral, Indecent Conduct
[Section 104.01 AB Code]
No person authorized to sell beer at retail, nor his agent, servant, or employee, may engage in or permit conduct on the premises of the retailer which is lewd, immoral, or offensive to public decency, including, but not limited to, any of the following acts:
1. The use of loud and vociferous or obscene, vulgar, or indecent language, or permitting its use;
2. The exposure of person or permitting a person to expose his person; Refer to Section 21.08 or 42.01 (a) (10) of the Texas Penal Code.
3. Rudely displaying or permitting a person to rudely display a pistol or other deadly weapon in a manner calculated to disturb persons in the retail establishment;
4. Solicitation of any person to buy drinks for consumption by the retailer or any of his employees;
5. Being intoxicated on the licensed premises;
6. Permitting lewd or vulgar entertainment or acts; Refer to Chapter 21 of the Texas Penal Code for actions that constitute public lewdness.
7. Permitting solicitations of persons for immoral or sexual purposes;
8. Failing or refusing to comply with state or municipal health or sanitary laws or ordinances; or
9. Possession of a narcotic or any equipment used or designed for the administering of a narcotic or permitting a person on the licensed premises to do so. [Narcotic is defined in the Texas Controlled Substances Act §481.002(5)(6)(7) or (26).]
NOTE: Should the offense committed for lewd or vulgar entertainment violate Chapter 21 or Chapter 43 of the Texas Penal Code, both criminal and administrative charges may be pursued. The offense must violate the Texas Penal Code for a criminal violation. Any case written for these offenses should cite Chapter 21 or 43 of the Texas Penal Code, rather than Section 104.01 of the Alcoholic Beverage Code.
Ok, here is what the TABC code says about suspending a business’s liquor license. As you can see, they have a lot of room for shutting down a business and if they wanted tthey could have shut dowh the Eagle long ago it they wanted. They have never been after the Eagle or I guarantee you it would be closed.
CANCELLATION AND SUSPENSION OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE PERMITS AND LICENSES:
Administrative Action
[Sections 11.61, 11.611, 11.612, 61.71, 61.711 AB Code]
After notice and hearing, the Commission may suspend for not more than 60 days, or cancel a retail permit or license if it is found that any of the following is true.
The licensee or permittee:
•
conducts the business in a place or manner which warrants the cancellation or suspension of the permit or license based on the general welfare, health, peace, morals and safety of the people and on the public sense of decency;
•
maintains a noisy, lewd, disorderly, or unsanitary establishment or has supplied impure or otherwise deleterious beverages;
•
is insolvent or mentally or physically unable to carry on the management of the establishment;
•
is in the habit of using alcoholic beverages to excess;
•
was intoxicated on the licensed premises;
•
with criminal negligence sold, served, or delivered an alcoholic beverage to a person under 21 years of age;
•
sold, served, or delivered an alcoholic beverage to an intoxicated person;
•
sold, served, or delivered alcoholic beverages at a time when its sale is prohibited;
•
does not have at his licensed premises running water, if it is available, and separate, identified toilets for both sexes;
•
employed a person under 18 years of age to sell, handle, or dispense beer, or to assist in doing so, in an establishment where beer is sold for on-premise consumption;
•
refused to allow or interfered with an inspection of the licensed premises by an authorized representative of the Commission or a peace officer;
•
permitted the use or display of his license or permit in the conduct of a business for the benefit of a person not authorized by law to have an interest in the license;
•
maintained blinds or barriers at his place of business in violation of the Code;
•
consumed an alcoholic beverage or allowed one to be consumed on the licensed premises at a time when the consumption of alcoholic beverages is prohibited by the Code;
•
purchased, sold, offered for sale, distributed, or delivered an alcoholic beverage, or consumed an alcoholic beverage or allowed one to be consumed on the licensed premises while the license or permit was under suspension;
•
failed to promptly report to the Commission a breach of the peace occurring on the licensed premises;
•
has been finally convicted of any offense under a state or federal law or a municipal ordinance prohibiting the violation of an individual’s civil rights or the discrimination against an individual on the basis of the individual’s race, color, creed, or national origin; and the offense was committed on the licensed premises or in connection with the operation of the licensee’s or permittee’s business.
By definition, the terms “licensee†and “permittee†include the agents, servants and employees of the license or permit holder.
NOTE: The above list is not inclusive, nor direct quotes, of all violations for which administrative action may be considered by the Commission.
i guess for carl smith, it’s ok if the police bash a guy’s head into the concrete and put him in the hospital. after all, they were only “following the law”…
LETTER POSTED IN THE STAR TELEGRAM:
Why is MADD silent?
Some people are missing at the protests regarding the situation at the Rainbow Lounge. Where are the MADD supporters? When a drunken driver gets on the road, everyone is at risk — gay, straight, bi-, black, white, brown, young, old.
If someone had come out of the lounge that night, gotten in a car and killed someone, people would be asking, “Where are our police, and why don’t they stop these drunks?”
The Rainbow Lounge was not the only bar checked that evening. However, it was the only bar whose patrons felt they had a “get out of jail card” for behavior leading to arrests.
Perhaps the police are not being as verbal about the “condition” of patrons coming out of the club as they should be. Perhaps they are waiting for a better time to speak. But it seems to me that the “card” has been pulled and the police have already been convicted.
— Etta Korenman, Fort Worth
Fort Worth Mayor in the Dallas Morning News:
“It might have been helpful if the owner of the lounge had informed [officers] this day was more than just another day of the week,” Moncrief said.
“But at the same time, they have a job to do no matter what day of the week it is, and that job is to protect the public from people who have consumed too much alcohol.”
He said the city would rebuild its trust in the community and repair its reputation.
“The whole incident is unfortunate, but we’re going to get through this, and we’re going to come back stronger,” Moncrief said.
“We’re going to let people around the country know that this great city that we’re blessed to call home is inclusive and not exclusive and we’re inclusive not just for some people but for all people. That’s the Fort Worth way.”
Many in the North Texas gay community – including Fort Worth native and resident Rafael McDonnell – echoed the mayor’s sentiments.
While they don’t believe Fort Worth is immune to such actions, cases of direct attacks on gays – by police or the general public – are rare.
“My take is Fort Worth has always had very decent relations with the police,” said McDonnell, strategic communications manager for the Resource Center Dallas.
“It’s very quiet; it’s not like Dallas. Fort Worth, in general, is not a shout-it-from-the-streets sort of community.”
Thank you Carl for being “voice of reason.”
For the rest of you that are trying to understand these (probably unrelated) events – Please DO NOT encourage Queer Liberaction and others from trying to INVENT a Texas-Stonewall. Some people just want to dress up and march around making demands.
They know have a mostly incoherent list of DEMANDS on their website. Their self-interest shows through – they need something to complain about. It’s quite all right if they just make it up.
Soon, we hope, the activists left overs from the 60s will recognize that protesting and marching is done on the INTERNET, not in the streets. Welcome to 2009. Poster board is so yesterday. Buy Photoshop, start a blog, create a website – but stop the make believe “spontaneous” rallies.
If some act of oppression should occur, taking to the streets would be appropriate. But, inventing oppression to suit our purpose, just makes us look like bitchy cry-babies.
Gay bars are NOT being Raided by the Big Bad Cops.
No idiot, I never said bashing a guys head into the concrete and putting him in the hospital was ok. If you will read some of my other post, I said that I suspect that what happened at the Rainbow Lounge was the result of some bad cops and some bad TABC agents. But just because something bad happened at the Rainbow Lounge doesn’t mean that TABC and the cops are out of control. There are plenty of good cops and good TABC agents out there, many of them gay. You need to learn to pick your fights. I believe from what I know about the incident at the Rainbow Lounge, it is a proper fight fot the gay community to take up. We don’t have enough information about what happened at the Eagle to know if there was any misconduct. I suspect that if there was any misconduct, it was on the part of the owners/managers of the Eagle. Time will tell. Don’t judge me wrongly for being a voice of reason.
Guess my other post was too truthful for the moderator to post because we don’t want any of the dirty little secrets of the Eagle to come out.
Carl,
Thanks for listing the TABC codes and prooving my point about not settling for the status quo. These so called codes are oppressive at the very least and are used dispraportionately to bash our community.
and
Brian,
Just go away…you are not contributing to the discussion…you are just stiring the pot…
Just got notice that the Voice of Pride was going to be held at the old location of the Eagle. Not sure what that means.
“Police State” I agree that the rules I listed are rediculous, but they are they law. I suggest that anyone who does not agree with them contact their representatives and request them to be eliminated or changed. That’s the way we do things. Not just complaining about them on a website post.
Police State? No kidding.