CRISTAN WILLIAMS | Cross-posted from Ehipassiko
Since my last post on this issue, I’ve met a few really cool folks in the “transsexual-not-transgender” camp. I was fortunate enough to meet one transsexual named Zoe. We messaged back and forth for quite some time over Facebook, and she really helped me to better understand where she’s coming from. And you know what, I 100 percent support her decision to self-identify herself as transsexual and not as transgender. The thing that seems to separate Zoe from the seeming majority of those in the TS-not-TG camp is that she’s not a hypocrite, she likes facts, and she speaks for herself instead of presuming to speak for all other transsexuals.
TS people don’t identify as TG anymore
A big problem with the idea that TS people no longer identify as TG is that it’s a demonstrably fallacious idea. The National Gay & Lesbian Task Force recently published the largest American trans study ever with more than 6,000 respondents. In this study, they actually asked how we self-identify. Care to guess how many self-identified with the term “transgender”? Ninety percent. Yup; as in almost everyone but a small minority.
Double standards are fun
Also, I’ve not yet seen the TS-not-TG group address a double standard I regularly observe:
• Most in the TS-not-TG group will regularly group TS and IS people together when talking about themselves because, they claim, being grouped together with other types of trans folk is offensive to them.
• However, most in the TS-not-TG group seem to have a blind-spot when it comes to acknowledging that in many regions of America, intersex people are offended when they are grouped with transsexuals.
• So, it’s somehow OK to demand that all transsexual people stop being referred to as transgender because the very idea is seemingly too offensive to contemplate, but it doesn’t matter that grouping themselves with IS people is incredibly offensive to some IS people. That double standard is what I think most might view as being hypocritical.
Grouping us together is something new that was done to us
I’ve also noticed that many of the TS-not-TG people feel that they were grouped with other types of trans folk only very recently. Perhaps where they come from, this is absolutely true. However, it’s demonstrably incorrect to make that claim for all transsexuals. In Houston, for example, our community purposefully began working to create one unified community that encompassed all types of trans people in the mid-1970s.
Houston, 1976. Note that even then, we were one politically active community.
What about civil rights?
Another thing that irks me is the demonstrably false notion that if all non-cisgender are grouped together, that we transsexuals won’t get our civil rights. If that’s so, why then is it that in Houston (Bush-land) TEXAS, a deep-south RED State, we have …
• Houston City Council members sponsoring TRANSGENDER events
• The TRANSGENDER community supporting the mayor of Houston – an out lesbian – in politics.
• The second openly TRANSGENDER judge in the nation.
• Houston becoming home to the only TRANSGENDER Center and Archive in the nation.
• An Executive Order protecting TRANSGENDER people from discrimination.
• The County Sheriff, Houston mayor, a number of elected Judges and most of Houston city council always attending and supporting any event our TRANSGENDER community puts on.
• Everyone from the FBI to the TABC meeting with Houston TRANSGENDER leaders to learn how to improve their interactions with non-cisgender people.
We did all of that in one of the reddest states in the union by becoming one active and unified community back in 1975 when HPD could and would get away with literally murdering people like us.
Houston Mayor and 2 judges perform a ceremonial swearing-in of openly transgender judge,
Phyllis Frye, at the Transgender Unity Banquet, 2011.
It’s a demonstrably false notion that presenting a united trans community somehow slows the march toward transsexual civil rights or somehow retards the quality of life transsexual people might hope to enjoy.
It’s called a dictionary
Lastly, I want to point out that regardless of what definition one chooses to confer upon the term “transgender” or how you personally feel about the term, all non-cisgender people are part of a group that the English language defines as being “transgender.” Look up the word in an English language dictionary. Just because someone somewhere uses the word in a manner consistent with the English language and in a way that the majority of the population in question would agree on and self-identity with, it’s (IMHO) a little unreasonable for a TS-not-TG person go around claiming that they’ve been somehow personally wronged when someone somewhere refers to the non-cis community as the transgender community.
The drama of elitism
Ashley Love: Being called transgender is assault and sexual objectification.
And the above gem brings me to the whole concept of trans elitism. Claiming that merely having an English language term to talk about non-cis people as a group is even in the same ballpark as assault and sexual objectification is, I think, a little over the top.
Some in the TS-not-TG group have what they call, “Harry Benjamin Syndrome” (HBS). HBS is an effort to rebrand the term, “transsexual”. HBS people, like the “we’re not TG, we’re all TS/IS” group, are hoping to link the idea of transsexualism to intersex conditions in a worthy, but largely misguided effort to destigmatize the plight of transsexuals.
What’s the stigma that some in the TS-not-TG/HBS camp are trying to overcome you might ask? Well, that stigma would be all of the other types of trans human beings. A world view that blames our non-cis brothers and sisters for our plight instead of focusing on our real oppressors is lame IMHO. Also, you know what else I think is lame?
Check out what Harry Benjamin thought about transsexual people who transition – from Sexology, 1963
The man after whom HBS people have rebranded transsexualism believed that a non-cis male who transitions to female is still male. Yup. They named their syndrome after someone who believed the exact opposite of what they espouse.
And, the wrap-up
Don’t get me wrong, I think that in all likelihood, transsexualism is an intersex condition (at least, according to the growing mountain of studies looking at brain morphology). If you don’t want me to call you transgender, then I won’t. If you claim to speak for yourself and your own experience, I won’t take issue when you talk about your own experience. To be clear: If you’re someone who doesn’t prefer to be referred to as transgender and instead prefers to be referred to as transsexual, I think that’s fine.
However, when you presume to speak for all transsexuals, when you blame-shift our plight onto the backs of our non-cis brothers and sisters, when you make demonstrably false claims, make up ironically laughable syndromes and refuse to acknowledge your own hypocrisy, then I’ve got a problem that I’ll probably continue to blog about and lampoon from time to time. I also think that if you don’t want to upset yourself every time someone else refers to your non-cis experience, you’ll probably need to make allowances for the current English language terms that the majority of transsexuals use by not claiming that someone assaulted you (*cough-Ashley-Love-cough*) should they refer to you as being part of the non-cis community.
Cristan Williams is executive director of the Houston-based Transgender Foundation of America.
I heartily agree with your sentiments about the hypocrisy and elitism of ts-fundamentalists. The bright lines and exclusionary poses are fiction and faction. the truth is more personal, complex and ever varying than any narrow lexicon of labels and exclusive camps. We are all just trying to make sense and peace from our personal paradoxes and the impulse to elevate ourselves on the backs of our true fellows and allies is to be deplored.
Trans-elitism is something I have abhorred forever. Some girls just need to get over themselves and realize that however far we choose to go in our Trans-life, we all came from very similar beginnings and should learn to respect & support each other, regardless of where we fall of some phony “Trans-hierarchy”. We’ve got enough problems with the outside world to be dealing with this kind of petty BS within our own community.
As if we don’t have enough troubles without dividing ourselves even further from the inside. We’re all very touchy about identity, of course, but there is such a thing as missing the forest in favor of staring at trees.
In any categorization scheme, there is a hierarchy, not unlike “Persons of Color” and, say Pakistani. I use that from a particular example where a supervisor told a Pakistani colleague that he thought he was Black. My colleague was quite angry, the supervisor was confused, and we were a bit shocked. In fact, when told the man was Pakistani, the boss said, “I know…isn’t that pretty much the same thing?” The obvious first reaction is there, but then the follow-up might be: “Wait? Isn’t the Pakistani racist because he protested too much about being Black?” Possibly, but I believe the issue was more that he strongly identified as Pakistani, and the boss in one bold statement attempted to nullify a big part of the man’s self-image. By the same token, I suspect the man would proudly proclaim his heritage but only agree that he was “Person of Color” on technical grounds. By the same token, I consider myself Transsexual. Yes, I am Transgender much like I’m LGBT. The different parts of the LGBT tapestry all have a legitimate place in this world, and despite our desire that the others learn about the nuances, education takes time. More so, apparently, in Tennessee these days. Sure, not all of us with label “LGBT” or “T” do credit to our “group” all the time…but then again I don’t think us white folks were looking too good as a “group” to that Pakistani colleague on that particular day 10 years ago.
Personally I don’t want to be called transgender. And I speak only for myself cause I know alot of transexual people don’t feel as I do regarding the subject. for me being in the same group as cross dressers doesn’t make sense to me. All the civil rights I’m wanting wouldn’t affect them one way or the other. Like bathroom policies and legal gender marker changes doesn’t concern those who don’t identify with the gender they cross dress to. I have respect for all but I can understand why government gets confused about these issues. I mean if a guy sees himself as a man but sometimes likes womens clothes should he be using the restroom beside me. And even if laws were put in place just for ts how would one know the difference. Even I don’t know how to fix that issue. But having said all that I do respect everybodies rights even those I don’t feel I have anything in common with and would fight for their freedom too I just don’t consider myself transgender.
I identify as TS so as to make sure people know that my identity is the same as my body (finally). When I advocate, I do so for transgender rights. I KNOW I’m not IS and i’m good with that. I want people to know tha I didn’t go through all of this so that I can EMULATE a woman. I AM a woman.
I’m gonna take Karena’s scenario to respond to Rebecca. I am African American human rights activists. I’ve never been to Mexico, my spanish is lacking, never worked full time as a manual laborer, or received poor wages but that doesn’t mean I can’t fight for the rights of undocumented workers. But as a person of color, I can relate to the history of discrimination against minorities in this country. Not understanding or relating to another group of people doesn’t mean you don’t have anything in common. I’ve heard of stories of people being harassed for just being slightly non-conforming to gender roles. Does that not affect someone who identifies as TS or CD? You may not want to be lumped with a cross dresser or a drag queen but to mainstream society, anyone who doesn’t fit gender norms is considered a threat.
The issues raised by Christan Williams are much more complex than the way she presents them. She certainly does not speak for me. She leaves out key passages in the outdated article written by Harry Benjamin such as, “organs that make you physically legally male or female.” That is a key point.
Transsexual and transgender are words with very different meanings and implications. Unfortunately, there are many activists trying to be all things to all to many people who have formed organizations, written books and started blogs, who have developed a dependency on trans-suffixed words . There is little to be gained in respecting a person who has transitioned as far as their legal, medical and personal privacy rights are involved. People who have transsexual histories provide no political base of support and do not provide a large enough demographic to make any money by publishing a book.
Actually, I meant to write “. . . those organs makes you physically and legally a man (or a woman)”. What this implies is very complex socially, legally and physiologically. It goes beyond the scope of this debate which is much more involved than mere semantics. If one looks closely, Benjamin actually contradicts himself by saying this when he goes on to say, “the operation, even if successful, does not change you into a woman.”
As you seem to like the word, so demonstrably explain to me how any of these things you listed are even an example of how the transgender are acquiring civil rights, much less substantiating your claim they are proof of it. Nothing detailed, just a “demonstrably” short explanation.
•Houston City Council members sponsoring a TRANSGENDER events
•The TRANSGENDER community supporting the mayor of Houston – an out lesbian – into politics.
•The 2nd openly TRANSGENDER judge in the nation.
•Houston becoming is home to the only TRANSGENDER Center and Archive in the nation.
•The County Sheriff, Houston Mayor, a number of elected Judges and most of Houston city council always attends and supports any event our TRANSGENDER community puts on.
•Everyone from the FBI to the TCAB meeting with Houston TRANSGENDER leaders to learn how to improve their interactions with non-cisgender people.
Do you really think being appointed a judge is an example of the transgender acquiring a civil right, or having someone sponsor a TG event, or having the ability to run for office, or supporting someone for office, or even someone attending a TG function…do you really believe that these bulleted items you mention and the picture of Phyllis Frye are examples of civil rights having been, or being, acquired?
I don’t think they are examples at all…not even bad examples…of anyone acquiring anything, particularly civil rights here in “Houston (Bush-land) TEXAS, a deep-south RED State…”
Because someone recognizes another, doesn’t mean they support them, much less is willing to support granting them a civil right due to their status.
This whole post is weak, bordering on lame, only serving to push your specific transgender agenda and further polarizing transsexuals and those who are not.
Sigh. Surely transsexual is a medical term, whereas transgender is (ultimately) a political one. That being the case, transgender is likely to be applied to and by more folk than transsexual.
Is there an equivalent problem with “transgender” and “genderqueer”?
Susan, let me make sure that I’m understanding your argument.
I think you’re trying to claim that all of the things I’ve listed are things that happen when non-cis people DO NOT have civil rights. Correct?
In other words, the equality indicators (protections, holding office, political figures choosing to openly associate with all trans people, etc) are not, in fact, equality indicators; they’re actually inequality indicators.
If I’m misunderstanding your premise, please expound on it more.
Also, what do you mean when you write, “Because someone recognizes another, doesn’t mean they support them, much less is willing to support granting them a civil right due to their status.”? Do you mean that just because someone recognizes that we exist, that a mere recognition does not equal civil rights? If that’s your meaning, then I’d absolutely agree.
If, on the other hand, you’re attempting to make the argument that the equality indicators (protections, holding office, political figures choosing to associate with all trans people, etc.) are nothing more than mere recognition of our existence, then I’d have to absolutely disagree.
Now, if you can cite an example of a community of transsexuals who have, all by themselves and without the aid of other trans folk, accomplished what the Houston trans community has, then I may revise my conclusion that working together for common purpose is more productive than working alone.
Your article and it’s logic are simply off. Transexuals are not transgendered. The label transexual implies a goal. The changing of the sex. While the term transgender includes anyone that even questions their gender identity which is a far cry from the serious goal of surgical reassignment of ones sex role.
It is not elitism to want to be classified correctly. I for one am willing to have surgery but for a lack of financing. Most TG’s don’t spend the time or money to meet the WPATH standards required to have surgery nor do they know of their existence. So you decided to create the drama with false claims of elitism, citing a definition that doesn’t clarify your position and then you cite Harry Benjamin to incite and alienate. Then you create divisions within a community that’s already under attack from every side.
You are no different than the other Texan’s that use terms like fag and homo to disparage us in order to make yourself feel better. Get over it.
Why must we buy into society’s labels and boxes.We are all children God’s universe. Everything and everyone in the universe is unique and diverse with elements of commonality.Celebrate your differences and uniqueness like different colored threads in the tapestry of life.Love and support one another to achieve your freedom and potential as human beings so please stop quibbling over semantics and rejoice in your humanity.
I transitioned a very long time ago. I didn’t even hear the word transgender until a little while before surgery. At that time decades ago, it was explained to me as a person who had no intent of surgery. From my POV that is fine – each person walks their own path. And I don’t care what label anyone wants to assign to me. I know who and what I am: I’m Nona – grandmother to a lovely little boy. I used to be transsexual, but that was a long time ago.
I am not transgender, I am not even transsexual any more. I’m just a woman – no matter what anyone else says I am. Wouldn’t it be just wonderful if all of us could come together regardless of label and work for the common good of people who, while walking different paths, still are working with issues of gender?
Natalie makes an interesting point. Which in a way I think is sad. Transexual who are just starting to transition don’t have many role models except for those who are just a couple years ahead of them in their transition. And I have to make this point as well what you have between your legs does not distinguish your gender. I’ve fine everything but have the srs. Which I can never afford but yes I am a woman and I’m respected as one. And I will say to tisha I fight for everybodies rights whether I feel I’m like them or not. Just because I don’t want to be in the same category doesn’t mean I won’t support the cause. Yes titles are silly but they are there. Yes I’m respected as a woman even tho I tell all I’m transexual. And yes I will be there to help those who are just starting their journey. I did mine by myself and I would have loved some helpful advice from those like me. That’s how I’m gonna do my part. But also as I said before alot of the rights I want for myself really doesn’t apply to cross dressers or drag queens. Having said that I will still fight for the equal rights that evey human being deserves.
I do not think these labels or any similarities or differences are important when it comes to human and civil rights. We all deal with issues of gender and sex in one way or another, and we all need to be treated with decency and respect under the law. However, I more than strongly suspect that these identifying labels do make a difference in the journey of each individual.
Luckily for me – and for many other people – there is a path that a person can forge for themselves on their journey. The journey I walk has been one of physical, emotional, mental and spiritual transformation from dealing with the issue of gender from the standpoint of a transsexual, to dealing with life from the standpoint of a woman.
There isn’t just one path – yet each one of us is on some journey going somewhere through life. Like it or not, we are all very unique and yet all the same.
Hey Cristan, I fundamentally agree with your article; however, I think you still miss a fundamental point that is at the very heart of this whole thing/argument. And this is it:
Most ‘trans’ folk I have spoke with (regardless of any definition in the dictionary) have issue with the umbrella term “transgendered” because to them it sets them apart from the very thing they simply wanted as a child: TO BE SEEN AS THE GENDER THEY FELT THEY WERE WHEN THEY WERE A CHILD. They never as a child wanted to be called ‘a transgendered woman or a transgendered male’, they simply wanted to either be called MAN or WOMAN…not ‘trans this or trans that’…but simply MALE or FEMALE.
I know all the arguments, and trust me I understand the reasoning for the umbrella term ‘transgendered’….it makes sense. But what your article does not address and what most articles supporting the term transgendered miss is what is at the heart of the matter. What those other folk are arguing with you on occasion is an argument of Pathos vs an argument of Logos. In other words, their argument is one of the heart, not reasoning. Theirs is not an argument of reasoning based off of logical definitions in a book. It is based off the simple heart felt proposition that they simply wanted to be either a MALE or FEMALE and any other term is a slight against what they feel. And what they ‘feel’ is that that umbrella terms moves them away from what they want and indeed possibly (whether true or not) moves society further away from simply seeing them as they wish to be seen:
As a MALE or FEMALE
The best argument I have sen yet goes as follows: If a woman has a hesterectomy she does not introduce herself as, “Hello, I am Jill, a hesterecto-woman.”. If a woman was born with a birth defect in her ovaries and is incapable of giving birth she does not introduce herself as, “Hello, I am Eve, an ovarian-defected-woman.” They are simply women. So in the eyes of folk who do not like the umbrella term there is a double standard at play AGAINST THEM. Does that make sense? And in their eyes, and in their argument, until the medical community sees them as women or men with a birth defect that needs to be addressed then society as a whole will never accept them in the gender they wish to live. Anything else, is movement away from that.
These two arguments are essentially not arguable. One can type up as many facts as they wish and those ‘facts’ will still be a world away from what the other side feels in their heart.
luv
E
Wow, finally a group that captures in essence what I have thought for years. Transsexuals should not be group together with every flavor of T, no matter how practical that sounds. It is a terrible mistake to link them, for example, with transvestites (cross-dresser for erotic purposes).
As for me, I paid my dues. My m2f transition has ended, $100k poorer but 100% woman head to toe. I have ditched the T past for good 🙂 But that’s just how I identify myself: a woman
Else what you said is pure brilliance. And julia I have a question. I know I’m 100% woman and I’ve definitely paid my dues but I can’t afford the surgery. So does that mean in your eyes I’m not 100% woman. I’m happy for you that you have the privilege of affording that. Am I less than a woman since I can’t. I’m a single patent and my kid has autism. Even if I had the money I couldn’t just run off to have it done. Maybe you should be careful with putting a definition to what a 100% woman is. I have a feeling you may not have meant it that way but it kinda sounded like you were rubbing your privilege in peoples faces who can never afford it.
I will say this for myself. I have accomplished in my transition far more than some with privilege will ever accomplish. I an respected as a woman not only by my family but by society as well. And ill admit that I’m just referred to as a woman or mommy since I do have a child that I raise alone. Having the surgery was my dream. And still is. But it won’t happen and that takes nothing away from who I am or what I have achieved. And for others like me reading this I will say just be you. If you can’t afford it don’t let anybody make you feel less of a person. Having the surgery doesn’t make you a woman. Not having it doesn’t mean your not.
It is my humble opinion that what Rebecca says is true: “Having the surgery doesn’t make you a woman. Not having it doesn’t mean your not.”
Rebecca, I for one thank you. In my opinion it doesn’t need to be said that I easily respect you as a woman.
Rebeca,
I stand corrected. Let me re-phrase it:
As for me, I paid my dues. My m2f social and physical transition has ended, $100k poorer but 100% accomplished. I have ditched the T for good. But that’s just me and how I identify myself: a woman with a stealth past.
Thank you so much natalie. That made me smile. And julia I kinda thought that’s what you meant. and I’m so happy for you. Its my dream but I’ve pretty much given up on it. Even if I had the money my kid keeps me so busy it would be difficult to heal
I definitely self-identify as a ‘pre-op transexual’ BUT I am also TG. From my point of view, all TG persons are along a path that constantly converges, and diverges. Every human being is unique… why would a slightly different path determine their worth or ‘eliteness’ ? The road, is not necessarily to ‘full’ womanhood for everyone – but it IS the path to happiness and self acceptance no matter what your desired destination may be.
We should ALL work together to make ALL of our respective paths a bit easier to walk… the other way lies madness.
Toni <3
This sort of bickering is why I walked away from the LGBT movement years ago. Everybody trying to be more righteous that the next. Look at all the lines drawn on the lesbian side, for instance. Many of the feminists don’t want the M2F women to associate with them. A bunch of Lesbian Feminists don’t want to be lumped in with Lesbian Non-Feminists. The diesel dykes don’t want to be lumped in with the lipstick lesbians, who in return dislike (hate?) the crew-cut, plaid shirt, machinist boot-wearing image presented by the diesel dykes. I quit the LGBT group I was a member of over all this crap, everybody wanting to fit me into their subgroup. I’m a lesbian, period.
So, after all this crap, is it any wonder that the various sub-groups of “T” people can’t agree on who or what they are? To define yourself as “X” you first have to agree on the definition of “X”. When you can do that to everyone’s satisfaction then get back to me.
The above is my personal opinion and is not part of any group or stance. Hopefully I’ve managed to piss everybody off equally. My late partner always said I needed to work on my personality. She’s not here to poke me in the side or politely correct me any longer, so I just say what I feel.
Cristan; Bravo! Well written and well considered! Beautiful!
Elise; I too thank you for putting to words this very, if not MOST important aspect of the HBS women’s fight.
You characterize the conflict, however as “pathos vs logos”. By classical definitions I agree, however there is a way of redefining that argument which, I believe boils it down further, further clarifying their position.
I also suggest that you, Cristan, or someone else more prosaic than I, delve deeper into this as I believe “we” have found the core of this issue.
One of the first places I looked to when I saw the visciousness with which Ashley or any of the others attacked transgender defenders is fear. They are angry, and to me that means nothing less than a fear that they cannot address head on. What kinds of fear drive one to attack in the ways we are witnessing? Well, what kinds of fears drive a homophobic male to physically slaughter a trans person? Or the hatred most of us have seen in the eyes of our bully attackers on the playground?
The existence of transgenderism calls into question the very dichotomy that 99% of our society rests it’s self definition on. And a huge portion of that 99% rests a whole lot more on it, basically their whole internal personna, their self esteem is fixed to being a “real” man or woman.
I suggest that many, (certainly not all, honestly some of the responses here surprised me by self defining as “transsexual” but not being as closed minded as those speaking out nationally against “transgender”), of those people who rail against the “transgender umbrella” have deep-seated homophobia themselves. But please don’t take this too personally. I had a deep homophobic streak before I came out, in fact my “coming out”, I believe, was, almost by definition, my fight against my internal homophobia. And I see this as a core component in nearly every individual I’ve had the blessing to be close to as they began their transition.
So, In brief, I believe that to recharacterize “pathos” to the definition of why our emotional inner self exists, to protect usfrom those who would harm or discriminate against us, or even just to preserve what little privilege we see ourselves as still having, is just a different level of “logos”.
But I still thank you all for such wonderful conversation.
Namaste, Misha.
According to a genetic study conducted by the University of Minnesota Medical and School of Biological Sciences many in the “T” community may actually be intersex from a genetic perspective.
.For the article on this study and its findings, please go to the following site:
www1.umn.edu/news/features/2011/UR_CONTENT_346326.html
I am a woman first, and I have a transsexual history. I never wanted to be ‘transgendered’; I just wanted to be a girl. The problem with the transgendered identifier is that it leads to authorities implementing such horrors as gender neutral bathrooms, which transsexual people are then expected to use instead of bathrooms for the sex they identifiy as. Policies like this help to erode our hard-won social identity as men or women.
So, not in my name please.
While I identify either TS or TG nothing can ever change the path I came from. The problem with the TS-Elitest that group themselves wit IS, most IS don’t group themselves with either TS or TG. While they try to they generally find it uncomfortable and leave those groups. Some because those TS-Elitest were actually rude and hateful toward them. The IS community largely doesn’t identify as TS or TG and the TS / TG’s haven’t a clue how the IS really feels.